z4root and kernels

[haislip]

i use z4root (temporary root) and free wifi tether on my 2.10 evo and i have no issues. can i also flash a kernel, and if so how will it effect my device, good or bad, thanks.

[lkillen]

I don't use Z4Root and since I am not an authority, take with a grain. I assumed Z4 was just using an exploit to do a ChMod and set permissions so you could run an app that required access to phone memory. And it ran from boot to boot. I would NOT try flashing a kernel that way.

In fact, I don't see you getting into recovery under Z4. I am quite sure you will still be S -ON.

Why not take the simple leap of going to Root? It is so easy to do, we have cavemen all over this place! Use the latest UnRevoked and you are gravy.

The only downside it that you are out of OTA city. But the XDA guys usually have the updates rooted before the ink dries on the next OTA.

[Karl]

z4root is to the evo as the first unrevoked was
it just gives you su root not nand root

[bradart]

The way Z4root operates is that it leverages an exploit in the base code of the android operating system allowing you to give certain applications root permissions. Not only is this reversible via a software switch, but it is turned off as soon as the device is turned off.

The process of flashing a kernel is done through the recovery console, which is on a different partition of the phone's memory. Z4root will not allow you access to this recovery partition.

It is easier to understand if you know how rom and kernel flashing works:

There are 3 main partitions on an android phone (for simplicity's sake):
1.System
2.Data
3.Recovery

These all store data independently of each other but can still interact and exchange data, provided the correct permissions are in place.

When flashing a rom, it cannot be done while the phone is booted. This is because you would essentially be deleting and adding code while the code is currently in use which, obviously, is not possible. Enter the recovery partition. What the recovery partition exists for is simple: It is there solely to provide recovery (obviously) and simple system update operations to the system and data partitions. Like I said, provided the permissions are all there, the recovery console can interact and modify data on the other partitions freely. Since you are booted into recovery, the code you are deleting and replacing is not in use and, therefore, fair game to be modified.

In addition to that, Z4root does not add busybox to the system bin, so you wouldn't have the proper commands to modify your recovery image.

Hope that helps.

Also, for FURTHER future reference, and I can't stress this enough,

BEING S-ON OR S-OFF HAS ABSOLUTELY NO BEARING ON WHETHER OR NOT YOU CAN FLASH ROMS OR KERNELS, AND IT NEVER WILL.

Thank you.

Edit: I'm going to clarify that last yelling part:

S-ON and S-OFF are indicators of the key in hboot (yet another partition on the phone that was not relevant to speak of in my first rant about recovery consoles) that allow you to flash unsigned images.
Now, I can understand why it would SOUND like that has something to do with rom flashing but it, in fact, does not. There is a very specific instance or two in which being S-OFF can be employed. It allows you to flash a PC36IMG.zip that has not been signed with HTC's developer keys, allowing you to flash non-stock recovery and rom images in .IMG format. If you are rooted, you can choose to leave your phone S-ON and it will have no effect on your ability to flash roms or access the recovery console. It is simply a tool you can use to re-gain root access should an unrootable update make its way onto your phone.

Thanks again.

[Karl]

Originally Posted by bradart

The way Z4root operates is that it leverages an exploit in the base code of the android operating system allowing you to give certain applications root permissions. Not only is this reversible via a software switch, but it is turned off as soon as the device is turned off.

The process of flashing a kernel is done through the recovery console, which is on a different partition of the phone's memory. Z4root will not allow you access to this recovery partition.

It is easier to understand if you know how rom and kernel flashing works:

There are 3 main partitions on an android phone (for simplicity's sake):
1.System
2.Data
3.Recovery

These all store data independently of each other but can still interact and exchange data, provided the correct permissions are in place.

When flashing a rom, it cannot be done while the phone is booted. This is because you would essentially be deleting and adding code while the code is currently in use which, obviously, is not possible. Enter the recovery partition. What the recovery partition exists for is simple: It is there solely to provide recovery (obviously) and simple system update operations to the system and data partitions. Like I said, provided the permissions are all there, the recovery console can interact and modify data on the other partitions freely. Since you are booted into recovery, the code you are deleting and replacing is not in use and, therefore, fair game to be modified.

In addition to that, Z4root does not add busybox to the system bin, so you wouldn't have the proper commands to modify your recovery image.

Hope that helps.

Also, for FURTHER future reference, and I can't stress this enough,

BEING S-ON OR S-OFF HAS ABSOLUTELY NO BEARING ON WHETHER OR NOT YOU CAN FLASH ROMS OR KERNELS, AND IT NEVER WILL.

Thank you.

Edit: I'm going to clarify that last yelling part:

S-ON and S-OFF are indicators of the key in hboot (yet another partition on the phone that was not relevant to speak of in my first rant about recovery consoles) that allow you to flash unsigned images.
Now, I can understand why it would SOUND like that has something to do with rom flashing but it, in fact, does not. There is a very specific instance or two in which being S-OFF can be employed. It allows you to flash a PC36IMG.zip that has not been signed with HTC's developer keys, allowing you to flash non-stock recovery and rom images in .IMG format. If you are rooted, you can choose to leave your phone S-ON and it will have no effect on your ability to flash roms or access the recovery console. It is simply a tool you can use to re-gain root access should an unrootable update make its way onto your phone.

Thanks again.

[bradart]

Originally Posted by KarlE

I'm not quite sure I understand your response.

[Sauske]

Originally Posted by bradart

The way Z4root operates is that it leverages an exploit in the base code of the android operating system allowing you to give certain applications root permissions. Not only is this reversible via a software switch, but it is turned off as soon as the device is turned off.

The process of flashing a kernel is done through the recovery console, which is on a different partition of the phone's memory. Z4root will not allow you access to this recovery partition.

It is easier to understand if you know how rom and kernel flashing works:

There are 3 main partitions on an android phone (for simplicity's sake):
1.System
2.Data
3.Recovery

These all store data independently of each other but can still interact and exchange data, provided the correct permissions are in place.

When flashing a rom, it cannot be done while the phone is booted. This is because you would essentially be deleting and adding code while the code is currently in use which, obviously, is not possible. Enter the recovery partition. What the recovery partition exists for is simple: It is there solely to provide recovery (obviously) and simple system update operations to the system and data partitions. Like I said, provided the permissions are all there, the recovery console can interact and modify data on the other partitions freely. Since you are booted into recovery, the code you are deleting and replacing is not in use and, therefore, fair game to be modified.

In addition to that, Z4root does not add busybox to the system bin, so you wouldn't have the proper commands to modify your recovery image.

Hope that helps.

Also, for FURTHER future reference, and I can't stress this enough,

BEING S-ON OR S-OFF HAS ABSOLUTELY NO BEARING ON WHETHER OR NOT YOU CAN FLASH ROMS OR KERNELS, AND IT NEVER WILL.

Thank you.

Edit: I'm going to clarify that last yelling part:

S-ON and S-OFF are indicators of the key in hboot (yet another partition on the phone that was not relevant to speak of in my first rant about recovery consoles) that allow you to flash unsigned images.
Now, I can understand why it would SOUND like that has something to do with rom flashing but it, in fact, does not. There is a very specific instance or two in which being S-OFF can be employed. It allows you to flash a PC36IMG.zip that has not been signed with HTC's developer keys, allowing you to flash non-stock recovery and rom images in .IMG format. If you are rooted, you can choose to leave your phone S-ON and it will have no effect on your ability to flash roms or access the recovery console. It is simply a tool you can use to re-gain root access should an unrootable update make its way onto your phone.

Thanks again.

If I'm correct! What your saying is, once you root the phone officially the S-On can be re-enable and you can Flash and access recovery like normal!? "It is simply a tool you can use to re-gain root access should an unrootable update make its way onto your phone." That quoted statement, are you talking about S-being ON or OFF?

[bradart]

Originally Posted by Sauske

If I'm correct! What your saying is, once you root the phone officially the S-On can be re-enable and you can Flash and access recovery like normal!? "It is simply a tool you can use to re-gain root access should an unrootable update make its way onto your phone." That quoted statement, are you talking about S-being ON or OFF?

S-off means that the signature verification check is turned off, allowing you to flash unsigned .img files via hboot. S off didn't even exist until not that long ago and I know several people who are fully rooted and still have s-on. It is a totally separate entity from your root status.



Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk

[lkillen]

Originally Posted by bradart

S-off means that the signature verification check is turned off, allowing you to flash unsigned .img files via hboot. S off didn't even exist until not that long ago and I know several people who are fully rooted and still have s-on. It is a totally separate entity from your root status.



Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk

So, if I were to flip S to ON, could I flash a Rom via PC36IMG from the bootloarder (not from recovery)?

[kevmo1965]

Originally Posted by lkillen

So, if I were to flip S to ON, could I flash a Rom via PC36IMG from the bootloarder (not from recovery)?

You can do that now. Except most ROM's are in .zip format not .img (an image file)