A call to arms - Windows 7 phone succeeds

[AZTECHKA]

I don't think ANYONE including Microsoft intended to take the number one spot on release day or even a couple of years down the road...
This is a NEW phone. New release... Even Microsoft said that WP7 would not be where it needs to be for another 5 years. EVERY new OS needs time to develop. If it was that easy to put out a number one seller on release day... We would have had a change leadership many times over in the past few years. Some people on these threads are way too black or white... FAIL or WIN... You just don't win on your first try. And obviously it's not a FAIL. MS is still throwing money into the project and will continue to do so till they grab a hold of their market share.
Although WP7 is not a FAIL (like the KIN project) it is still way too early to consider it a FAIL. Grey area people... Fails and Wins are OBVIOUS... Grey is... Ahmmm..... GREY! Only time will tell... If you hate MS so much just go out and get an Android and if you are a hipster get an iPhone. Hell... I don't hate them and I got an EVO. WP7's offeer from Sprint is not for ME... I will reconsider in a year when my upgrade is up.
p.

[gTen]

Originally Posted by AZTECHKA

I don't think ANYONE including Microsoft intended to take the number one spot on release day or even a couple of years down the road...
This is a NEW phone. New release... Even Microsoft said that WP7 would not be where it needs to be for another 5 years. EVERY new OS needs time to develop. If it was that easy to put out a number one seller on release day... We would have had a change leadership many times over in the past few years. Some people on these threads are way too black or white... FAIL or WIN... You just don't win on your first try. And obviously it's not a FAIL. MS is still throwing money into the project and will continue to do so till they grab a hold of their market share.
Although WP7 is not a FAIL (like the KIN project) it is still way too early to consider it a FAIL. Grey area people... Fails and Wins are OBVIOUS... Grey is... Ahmmm..... GREY! Only time will tell... If you hate MS so much just go out and get an Android and if you are a hipster get an iPhone. Hell... I don't hate them and I got an EVO. WP7's offeer from Sprint is not for ME... I will reconsider in a year when my upgrade is up.
p.

No one is saying M$ has already failed...but we are seeing A LOT of mistakes on M$ part..and simple things they should have had from the get go they are missing out..There is obviously room for upsets..I mean 10 years ago Apple was almost a nobody...and boom..now everyone is praising them as industry leaders..

I guess if anything, the market is a lot harsher nowadays then it was before..I mean imagine how hard it is now to make another OS mainstream on the PC other then Windows, Linux or Mac...with every generation "standards" go up...Sure there was a point where Android was new, iOS was new and et...but back then the average consumer was not smartphone aware...the standards just are a lot harsher now, hence why you see all the criticism..

[AZTECHKA]

I know... I get it... I just don't get all the Black and White stuff... Yes... People here are calling WP7 a failure.
And I know I'm taking a fanboi stance... But at least I try to see things for what they are. For example I hate apple... I don't know why... I just do. Maybe I'm afraid of becoming a fanboi. But I don't mislead people and tell them it sucks or that it's a failure. I have advised my sister and my brother in law to get iPod devices and they love them. I try to only judge from a personal point and not infect others. Some people here are fanbois to the Nth degree. I know it doesn't change the price of beer so I shouldn't give a crap. But I guess it hits me below my proverbial fanboi belt. And it hurts. LOL.
Naw... You know what I mean.
If you don't know something... You're safest bet is to be in the grey.
p.

[gTen]

Originally Posted by AZTECHKA

I know... I get it... I just don't get all the Black and White stuff... Yes... People here are calling WP7 a failure.
And I know I'm taking a fanboi stance... But at least I try to see things for what they are. For example I hate apple... I don't know why... I just do. Maybe I'm afraid of becoming a fanboi. But I don't mislead people and tell them it sucks or that it's a failure. I have advised my sister and my brother in law to get iPod devices and they love them. I try to only judge from a personal point and not infect others. Some people here are fanbois to the Nth degree. I know it doesn't change the price of beer so I shouldn't give a crap. But I guess it hits me below my proverbial fanboi belt. And it hurts. LOL.
Naw... You know what I mean.
If you don't know something... You're safest bet is to be in the grey.
p.

Hey..I'm always neutral...that said..

I wouldn't even wish an iPhone on my enemies >.> lol

[Kliptik]

Originally Posted by testacon

My point exactly, so why buy it now? Your rewarding Microsoft for releasing a phone that is YEARS behind the competition in many, many aspects and feature sets.

If Microsoft has the money and the patience to be persistent and 2 years down the road releases a phone correcting all the issues like, allowing users customizations, has tons of apps and finally on all 4 of the major US carriers, then maybe it's time. But a 2 year contract for this now, I just don't get it personally.

We've waited all these years since WM6.5 and I don't think the OS is polished enough to overtake Apple or Android right now.

Here are a few things though to keep your eye on though:

1.) How long will they support a specific Phone? Is it going to be as good as Apple's commitment in keeping ~3 years on devices? It has to be able to beat Android because Google and the carriers sucks in this category...

2.) Haven't heard a damn thing about APP rejection, does that mean that MS hasn't rejected any yet or that no one cares about MS APPS yet? Apple can't reject anything without getting in the news, just heard about Sony E-Reader for example...

3.) When will we start seeing APPS to access companies resources, i.e. TV, weather, radio, movie theaters, shopping etc. No Pandora even planned--Flabbergasted!! I saw a post in here that said WE should tell companies we want APPS, really, you mean a billion of dollars worth of advertisements isn't doing the job already?!

4.) How long before we see 4G or LTE devices? 3G only is soooo 2005/6 for a smart device...

5.) What has the development community done other than break the DRM? Any custom ROMS yet, any word on when or even IF?

To me this is one of those cases where BLEEDING edge isn't always better then LEADING edge and there is a pool of blood forming behind the WP7 sign since that we aren't being saved quick enough by our phones, can I get a band-aid here?

Actually, if you ever visit the App Hub dev forums, apps are getting kicked back left and right for not conforming to some pretty strict performance guidelines. MS wants apps in their Marketplace, but they don't want apps that are going to kill the experience of the phone.

And as far as getting in touch with companies about creating apps, yes contacting them makes a difference. You think people didn't contact companies about creating iPhone apps/Android apps? I guarantee you they did, so now they're waiting to see if ppl are lookign for WP7 versions, to gauge if it's worth it.

And either Engadget or PocketNow just posted an article a day or two ago about custom WP7 ROMs for the HD2. They've also been able to break into the file system. Let's talk Chevron unlocker. Let's talk wifi tethering. Don't be so quick to speak bad about the dev community.

Originally Posted by brownhornet

Well regardless... they both seem to be at the bottom and not seeing much improvement in terms of sales.

Let's break this down. WinMo has been around for a LOOOONG time. WP7 has been around for a little over ONE quarter. And overall WP7 sales are only 2% behind WinMo?! So WP7 went from NOTHING, to a fairly significant milestone breaking sales that close to WinMo. I would say that is "much improvement" IMHO...

I agree w/Aztechka that people need to get over the win/fail judgements. I personally can't think of a single thing that has been such a massive hit that it owned the #1 spot the first day, or even the first quarter, and very few in the first year. It's a time battle. If you don't like it, don't get it. But as already stated, MS isn't out to please the geeks. The geeks will please themselves. It doesn't matter how much ANY OS caters to the geeks, the geeks will still hack it and change it. MS is after market share, which is something the geeks provide very little of.

My $.02...

[gTen]

Originally Posted by Kliptik

Let's break this down. WinMo has been around for a LOOOONG time. WP7 has been around for a little over ONE quarter. And overall WP7 sales are only 2% behind WinMo?! So WP7 went from NOTHING, to a fairly significant milestone breaking sales that close to WinMo. I would say that is "much improvement" IMHO...

Thats not saying much...

1) Many carriers already discontinued their winmo handsets..and those that didn't don't have them on display much...

2) Most people that buy winmo know what it is, and don't buy it for the hype or etc...they also know that winmo is discontinued by M$ and chances are won't buy it..and most of the few who do buy it won't sign a 2 year contract

3) 2% sounds like a small number but it isn't..Winmo sold 4% total sales...WP7 sold 2% total sales..aka winmo sold 2x more then WP7..Winmo used to be like 7% I think the quarter before...aka WP7 right now is ~1/4th of what winmo was 2010Q3 (which still isn't winmo's prime time..for reference 2009 winmo had around 20%)

4) WP7 sales were around the same as sales for WebOS..to note WebOS has a lot more limited availability then WP7

So yes the numbers are not looking the best...

I agree w/Aztechka that people need to get over the win/fail judgements. I personally can't think of a single thing that has been such a massive hit that it owned the #1 spot the first day, or even the first quarter, and very few in the first year. It's a time battle. If you don't like it, don't get it. But as already stated, MS isn't out to please the geeks. The geeks will please themselves. It doesn't matter how much ANY OS caters to the geeks, the geeks will still hack it and change it. MS is after market share, which is something the geeks provide very little of.

iPhone had record sales on 1st sale day over any phone when it came out >.>..but its obvious M$ is not out of the game..but the pressure is on..

[Kliptik]

Originally Posted by gTen

Thats not saying much...

1) Many carriers already discontinued their winmo handsets..and those that didn't don't have them on display much...

2) Most people that buy winmo know what it is, and don't buy it for the hype or etc...they also know that winmo is discontinued by M$ and chances are won't buy it..and most of the few who do buy it won't sign a 2 year contract

3) 2% sounds like a small number but it isn't..Winmo sold 4% total sales...WP7 sold 2% total sales..aka winmo sold 2x more then WP7..Winmo used to be like 7% I think the quarter before...aka WP7 right now is ~1/4th of what winmo was 2010Q3 (which still isn't winmo's prime time..for reference 2009 winmo had around 20%)

4) WP7 sales were around the same as sales for WebOS..to note WebOS has a lot more limited availability then WP7

So yes the numbers are not looking the best...



iPhone had record sales on 1st sale day over any phone when it came out >.>..but its obvious M$ is not out of the game..but the pressure is on..

But did iPhone totally own the market right when it launched? That's the point I'm making. People are saying that just cauze WP7 didn't blow up everyone's servers on release day, then it's a fail.

In regards to the numbers, even if it is 2% and 4%, that means MS has 6% of the market. Arguably that's 150% of what they would've had w/o WP7. I'm not saying they're incredible numbers, but that ppl shouldn't be so quick to doubt MS plan.

Don't get me wrong by any means, MS has messed up quite a bit in the mobile market. I'm even pretty frustrated that there is STILL no CDMA release, and the best date they can give is "before the end of the first half of '11"... Now I understand that most of the world is GSM, but since they sat on their hands, now they have the CDMA iPhone to compete with. I'm tempted to jump to a different OS myself in the interim since my TP2 has a couple bad spots in the screen, but i dont wanna use an upgrade and then have WP7 drop a week later.

My other $.02

[gTen]

Originally Posted by Kliptik

But did iPhone totally own the market right when it launched? That's the point I'm making. People are saying that just cauze WP7 didn't blow up everyone's servers on release day, then it's a fail.

It had #1 sales for release date..but if people are stuck in 2 year contracts its impossible for any phone to own the market day #1 even if its the best and hottest phone in the universe..that said people just expected sales to be higher then it was...

In regards to the numbers, even if it is 2% and 4%, that means MS has 6% of the market. Arguably that's 150% of what they would've had w/o WP7. I'm not saying they're incredible numbers, but that ppl shouldn't be so quick to doubt MS plan.

This is actually one place I think M$ messed up completely..they shouldn't have told people that winmo is dead and wp7 is it and that it won't be backwards compatible in the beginning of the year..if they kept winmo alive and then killed it once WP7 was already released winmo may have been at 10%..get my point? they literally killed their own sales for this year >.>

I'm tempted to jump to a different OS myself in the interim since my TP2 has a couple bad spots in the screen, but i dont wanna use an upgrade and then have WP7 drop a week later.

30 day policy?

[Kliptik]

Originally Posted by gTen

This is actually one place I think M$ messed up completely..they shouldn't have told people that winmo is dead and wp7 is it and that it won't be backwards compatible in the beginning of the year..if they kept winmo alive and then killed it once WP7 was already released winmo may have been at 10%..get my point? they literally killed their own sales for this year >.>

Well said!

30 day policy?

Not a bad idea!

[wud_e]

Originally Posted by gTen

30 day policy?

What about 31 days? I am tired of waiting for a CDMA device but this argument also has me annoyed. This about WM7 already being labled a fail after 3 months on the market, that it's not a complete OS even though iOS wasn't and Android was far from it on release and I'm also tired of simply waiting on a CDMA device. If the Focus was on T-Mo I think I would've switched to them already. I refuse to do any less than AMOLED and seeing as the Pro7 does not have that in-tow that's a little dis-heartening. I can forgive the no 4G because after thinking about it and realising how good 3G is it's something that doesn't matter to me. I would like to see a front facing cam though. I really hope Sprint has more to offer than the 3D Android on Monday and at MWC.