Upcoming prototype WP7 device from LG - quick hands on impression!

[dishe]

Originally Posted by Whosdaman

Let me say this to all of you, I don't know why you keyed in on the fact I have a Hero, but I never said it was a great device. Even though I do believe otherwise. I am getting the Samsung Epic, and when's the last time MS actually had a big hit? O that's right, the HTC Vogue, my old smartphone. Some may say the Touch Pro 2, but people had more issues and problems with that phone then any other I've dealt with.

As well, you said Android is constantly updating and MS isnt?!?!?!?! Are you serious??? I was a chef for the Vogue, and every 2 or 3 days there was a new build for 6.1 and 6.5. It was never finished. WP is the buggiest software ever made. It will never be finished. The reason why there are chefs is to finish what WP started, and that's still nearly impossible. WP7 looks like a child's play thing, and their phone they are releasing for WP7 are crap. Tell me when they release a phone play can play 55 frames per second and run smoother then a babies bottom?

O btw, Android is open source....so everything they add just comes from the users. In Froyo the things added was, Apps 2 SD and Mobile Hotspot. And guess what, I'll inform you that Android is working on 3.0 now. It's going to be made for high end phones only. Sounds like WP7 right? WRONG. Google is almost done with 3.0, and WP7 still is and will always be in development. It took 1 and half years to leak about a device coming with WP7. Heck, I remember last year when people were talking about if the Touch Pro 2 will get WP7. Now it's a thing of the past. Get real...MS and WP are nearly dead, and WP7 will prove it once people realize the lack of support for it.

I did not intend for this thread to become a Microsoft vs Android flame fest. That being said, I disagree with many of your points.

First of all, you're complaining about bad hardware and calling it Microsoft's fault. If the TP2 is really buggier than the Vogue (and that subject is highly debatable), it would be HTC's fault, not Microsoft. In fact, if anything, the biggest problem with Windows Mobile has been the fragmentation, the lack of MS's involvement in the actual hardware, and the "too many cooks spoil the broth" syndrome. By the time you buy a handset, MS wrote the OS, HTC wrote their UI "enhancements", and the carrier branded it / crippled it / added their services, to the point that it is so far removed from the original intended interface.
If you followed the long history of Pocket PC (since before they were phones), you'd have seen this first hand and understood where this is all coming from.

Microsoft has had plenty of "hits" in the past, dating back to Pocket Pc / Windows Mobile. The problems have been more recent, where there has been a paradigm shift within the company that sort of left the smaller subdivisions of MS unorganized in their efforts. The result is that many of the teams working on Windows Mobile / CE were not really on the same page as the other divisions (their acquisition of Danger is a prime example of this, as is the crack team assigned to release incremental 6.x updates while they figure out where to go with 7).

That, I can say, is a thing of the past. After Windows Mobile 6 was released (crossbow), the mobile space was already heating up, and it was pretty soon thereafter that MS realized they are losing their foothold in the market.
After seeing that the original planned Windows Mobile 7 ("Photon", google my article on MoPocket for more info on that) was not going to be enough to revolutionize anything, they canned it, went back and decided to focus on something completely different- something they have never done before, tapping the consumer market team specialists who are responsible for the Zune HD and Xbox.

The result is decidedly very un-Windowsish, and much more consumer friendly. And like the ZuneHD and Xbox, they appear to not be cutting any corners on the polish this time, even cracking down on hardware and software requirements for 7 to discourage the fragmentation problems between hardware manufacturers and developers (can you imagine if Xbox came from a choice of hardware manufacturers and branded by local game stores? You'd have bugs and compatibility issues up the wazoo! No- like a page from Apple's playbook, MS needs to step in to the hardware game a little as well- or at the very least, be way more specific about the requirements and NOT just license to the OS to anyone).

Meanwhile, they had to release SOMETHING to keep Windows Mobile in the arena, even if only half @$$ed, so they developed 6.1, 6.5, and 6.5.x. Microsoft did not invest too many of their resources on those releases, as was apparent even in their name- in the history of Windows Mobile/Pocket PC, you never saw this many incremental releases in the same generation of OS.

You appear to be judging a LONG history of a very powerful OS dating back to over a DECADE with just what you've seen from the vogue until now, which we can all clearly see has been much of a turning point for them. That's not really fair, and seems awfully short-sighted.

WP7 looks like a child's play thing, and their phone they are releasing for WP7 are crap. Tell me when they release a phone play can play 55 frames per second and run smoother then a babies bottom?

I already mentioned that this model is a no-frills one. The others are not. Samsung has a really nice one, in fact!

As for performance... um, I take it you haven't touched a ZuneHD, have you? Its about as smooth as mobile devices get these days, and the games yield a solid fps. This, even as a "no frills" model, can easily perform as well, especially with the minimum specs required for it to run the Xbox tab. Have you even SEEN the demoed games?

[Whosdaman]

Originally Posted by dishe

I did not intend for this thread to become a Microsoft vs Android flame fest. That being said, I disagree with many of your points.

First of all, you're complaining about bad hardware and calling it Microsoft's fault. If the TP2 is really buggier than the Vogue (and that subject is highly debatable), it would be HTC's fault, not Microsoft. In fact, if anything, the biggest problem with Windows Mobile has been the fragmentation, the lack of MS's involvement in the actual hardware, and the "too many cooks spoil the broth" syndrome. By the time you buy a handset, MS wrote the OS, HTC wrote their UI "enhancements", and the carrier branded it / crippled it / added their services, to the point that it is so far removed from the original intended interface.
If you followed the long history of Pocket PC (since before they were phones), you'd have seen this first hand and understood where this is all coming from.

Microsoft has had plenty of "hits" in the past, dating back to Pocket Pc / Windows Mobile. The problems have been more recent, where there has been a paradigm shift within the company that sort of left the smaller subdivisions of MS unorganized in their efforts. The result is that many of the teams working on Windows Mobile / CE were not really on the same page as the other divisions (their acquisition of Danger is a prime example of this, as is the crack team assigned to release incremental 6.x updates while they figure out where to go with 7).

That, I can say, is a thing of the past. After Windows Mobile 6 was released (crossbow), the mobile space was already heating up, and it was pretty soon thereafter that MS realized they are losing their foothold in the market.
After seeing that the original planned Windows Mobile 7 ("Photon", google my article on MoPocket for more info on that) was not going to be enough to revolutionize anything, they canned it, went back and decided to focus on something completely different- something they have never done before, tapping the consumer market team specialists who are responsible for the Zune HD and Xbox.

The result is decidedly very un-Windowsish, and much more consumer friendly. And like the ZuneHD and Xbox, they appear to not be cutting any corners on the polish this time, even cracking down on hardware and software requirements for 7 to discourage the fragmentation problems between hardware manufacturers and developers (can you imagine if Xbox came from a choice of hardware manufacturers and branded by local game stores? You'd have bugs and compatibility issues up the wazoo! No- like a page from Apple's playbook, MS needs to step in to the hardware game a little as well- or at the very least, be way more specific about the requirements and NOT just license to the OS to anyone).

Meanwhile, they had to release SOMETHING to keep Windows Mobile in the arena, even if only half @$$ed, so they developed 6.1, 6.5, and 6.5.x. Microsoft did not invest too many of their resources on those releases, as was apparent even in their name- in the history of Windows Mobile/Pocket PC, you never saw this many incremental releases in the same generation of OS.

You appear to be judging a LONG history of a very powerful OS dating back to over a DECADE with just what you've seen from the vogue until now, which we can all clearly see has been much of a turning point for them. That's not really fair, and seems awfully short-sighted.



I already mentioned that this model is a no-frills one. The others are not. Samsung has a really nice one, in fact!

As for performance... um, I take it you haven't touched a ZuneHD, have you? Its about as smooth as mobile devices get these days, and the games yield a solid fps. This, even as a "no frills" model, can easily perform as well, especially with the minimum specs required for it to run the Xbox tab. Have you even SEEN the demoed games?

There is a flaw to your whole arguement. The bugs are in the software, not the hardware. The hardware works perfect. Its up to the software people to make sure it work with the hardware. And that my friend is MS. HTC does make a face for the software they are provided with from MS though. So HTC can only do with what they are given.

[dishe]

Originally Posted by Whosdaman

There is a flaw to your whole arguement. The bugs are in the software, not the hardware. The hardware works perfect. Its up to the software people to make sure it work with the hardware. And that my friend is MS. HTC does make a face for the software they are provided with from MS though. So HTC can only do with what they are given.

Actually, most of the bugs are in the drivers and HTC enhancements.
If you use a professional grade Windows Mobile device (such as point of sale handhelds or inventory devices) you'll find them surprisingly stable and bug free.
In fact, the NSA-approved military grade smart communication devices (which where all over the blogs when it was rumored Obama would have to give up his blackberry due to security concerns) almost ALL run Windows Mobile. By default, the OS is stable, secure, and EXTREMELY powerful.

Its just not "cool" like the other OSes currently, and when a manufacturer like HTC tried to make it something its not, the result is often unstable.

[testacon]

Originally Posted by dishe

First of all, you're complaining about bad hardware and calling it Microsoft's fault.

It is 100% Microsoft's fault, you just are over complicating things. Microsoft owns 100% of the licensing rites to Windows Mobile. They could have done ALMOST everything that they are doing now, except leaving the OS OPEN and not treating us like iPhone users.

They could still have a store, that checks to see if an app is rogue or not, but still allow users to sideload apps and have access to the filesystem and registry if THEY need it. Here is the worse case scenario MS could have implemented and still made me happy, if you want the ability to sideload apps or have access to the file system and registry, you need to be a development customer and you will be emailed a jailbreak code. Yes, I would actually pay a coulple of bucks extra for this privilege. This way you protect the majority of the idiots out there but you still make the rest of the users happy. They can dictate to the manufactures that IF you want a Windows device license the following items MUST be met.

All Microsoft needs to be responsible for is making sure the phone itself is stable both OS and hardware wise at release. They do NOT need to close the OS and treat all of it's old loyal customers like Apple chooses to do. They screwed over both the consumer and the programmers by making these changes.

And even after the proverbial "eff you" M$ gave us, people are actually still excited over WP7, instead of resisting Microsoft and trying to get them to bend somewhat on taking away most of the choices we JUST had.

You'd think that in 2010 I could buy a device that could do EVERYTHING that I want it to do so that I don't have to carry multiple devices around with me. Leave it to Microsoft to still make me need a computer, laptop, netbook and phone.

Can someone please explain to me how this is progress? Sure doesn't seem like it to me.