Snapdragon, Tegra, OMAP 3 can they help?

RicoRich196 · #1 (**permalink**) 07-22-2009, 07:37 PM

Okay I've been reading all this talk about WM phone manufacturers looking into using Snapdragon, Tegra and OMAP 3 processors in future phones but my question is can they really help?

The reason I pose this question is because I've done some in depth reading (albeit not enough as I'm still confused and have come here to ask) about these processors and their capabilities and it all seems great (graphics processing, extremely low power usage, extremely efficient at computing, high definition video without a hiccup) but can it really do much for windows mobile at the moment?

I've read a few postings by people on different forums over the weeks and they talk about how Windows Mobile needs to be completely rewritten to even take advantage of the capabilities of these processors. They spoke about WM not being able to take advantage of hardware graphics acceleration and have support for extremely old (WM 2003SE old) "core libraries" that just cannot take advantage of the multiple cores/threads on these newer processors.

Now I know WM7 will, but WM 6.5 won't and it makes me worried. The new TG01 by Toshiba will have a 1Ghz Snapdragon processor and guess what people who have played with the device say it's extremely sluggish and unresponsive. (engadget had an article)

My idea in my mind is that HTC with their Sense UI coming to WM and TF3D iterations, will have their custom GUIs take advantage of hardware graphics acceleration and all that but it's like damn talk about trying to go around the real issue, I mean WM7 won't be coming til probably late 2010 and that's just wack.

**jethro_static** · #2 (**permalink**) 07-22-2009, 07:48 PM

Those processors are not really meant for 6.1. TG01 is really not for 6.1. I watched it on 6.5 and I saw it's true potential.

RicoRich196 · #3 (**permalink**) 07-22-2009, 09:11 PM

But even 6.5 isn't a re-write and I haven't heard any information that it supports newer technologies.

**jethro_static** · #4 (**permalink**) 07-22-2009, 09:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RicoRich196

But even 6.5 isn't a re-write and I haven't heard any information that it supports newer technologies.

DO U realize how many years and how much money and affort U need to write an OS from scratch? Anyways, It sure is better than 6.1. What support for newer technologies U speak off?

RicoRich196 · #5 (**permalink**) 07-22-2009, 10:17 PM

YES I do, and guess what my nigga they've had since WM5 to re-write this! Don't get me wrong I like WM. I've been using it since my Treo700wx so it's not like I'm being biased.

As far as technologies, I can't recall exactly because this post is a product of me trying to remember from various posts on various websites. One of the things I do recall is that at it's core WM doesn't have native support for hardware graphics acceleration like what the Tegra or Snapdragon provide, which is ode wack and the reason why I'm asking how much are these new processors going to help.

As far as the TG01 with 6.5 just peeped some video of that and it didn't show anything that special. The scrolling? That **** is just as smooth as on my TP lol.

**jethro_static** · #6 (**permalink**) 07-22-2009, 10:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RicoRich196

YES I do, and guess what my nigga they've had since WM5 to re-write this! Don't get me wrong I like WM. I've been using it since my Treo700wx so it's not like I'm being biased.

As far as technologies, I can't recall exactly because this post is a product of me trying to remember from various posts on various websites. One of the things I do recall is that at it's core WM doesn't have native support for hardware graphics acceleration like what the Tegra or Snapdragon provide, which is ode wack and the reason why I'm asking how much are these new processors going to help.

As far as the TG01 with 6.5 just peeped some video of that and it didn't show anything that special. The scrolling? That **** is just as smooth as on my TP lol.

First off, Why would they re-write The OS on WM5 era when it's selling alright? If Ur in a business, U don't do that. Iphone took 3 gens to have copy & paste OK. Guess what? the 3rd quarter is their biggest non holiday sales in terms of profit.
Have U seen Tegra's Demo? It even has 720P video in it? The awesome 3D game? Now the augmented reality? What OS do U think Tegra is using? LOL. WinCE. Wince is the older version of WM. Now imagine running a much newer version of the OS...
The 6.5 version on TG01 is an unofficial release and it's not optimized yet. It's prolly a custom ROM.

RicoRich196 · #7 (**permalink**) 07-24-2009, 05:38 AM

Okay here's a prime example of what I'm talking about. And another thing, I'm here asking a question, I was wondering if what people were saying had any truth. Here on WMpoweruser.com is this article: http://wmpoweruser.com/?p=6023#comments

And I'm reading some of the comments and here's what people are saying

Quote:

Jason8 Reply:
July 24th, 2009 at 2:46 am

Snapdragon is the same typical Qualcomm bullcrap. Go look at a video of the Toshiba TG01 in action… just as sluggish and unresponsive as my HTC touch Pro.

Tegra is different because there’s a high-powered and dedicated GPU that processes all the graphics (read: everything that would seem sluggish on Windows Mobile) without clogging up the CPU like Qualcomm’s chips do. You don’t /need/ 1 GHz with Tegra because the CPU just has to do that much less processing and is more efficient with the GPU.

And to comment on the story… It’s about damn time those idiots get busted for anything. They deserve every cent of that fine.

Then he gets this response:

Quote:

Wishmaster Reply:
July 24th, 2009 at 6:13 am

To Jason8:
Unfortunately it won’t make a difference for WM cause the OS itself relies only on CPU not GPU so in this case snapdragon is better choice than tegra.

It may change with WM7 that will use openGL ES as its main API for graphic. But for now what we need is raw CPU power to make OS speedy.

Quote:

rad Reply:
July 24th, 2009 at 6:37 am

@Jason8: Tegra is far from a wonder-chip. It’s just a plain old ARM11 (same as the MSM72xx line) at 600 MHz. Snapdragon at 1 GHz is 3-4x faster in CPU performance. Tegra’s GPU is faster than Snapdragon’s, but that won’t help WM system performance at all, as the WM UI is not GPU-composited, and the GPU would only be of use in 3D applications, of which few decent ones exist for WM anyway– mobile 3D devs target high-end graphics for more powerful, much more lucrative platforms like the iPhone 3GS (e.g. compare even cross-platform 3D game titles on WM vs. iPhone).

And lastly Nustrike who is quite known on Xda so he probably has some information behind his answers

Quote:

NuShrike Says:
July 24th, 2009 at 6:04 am

As much as HTC/Qualcomm has contributed to the crumbling decay of Windows Mobile, Microsoft is also to blame for continuing the sluggish advance of its OS.

In the space of 5 (2005) years, it has only released 2 revisions of its OS none of which supported advancing hardware: fpu/gpu,video drivers, htc class action.

**jethro_static** · #8 (**permalink**) 07-24-2009, 07:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RicoRich196

Okay here's a prime example of what I'm talking about. And another thing, I'm here asking a question, I was wondering if what people were saying had any truth. Here on WMpoweruser.com is this article: http://wmpoweruser.com/?p=6023#comments

And I'm reading some of the comments and here's what people are saying

Then he gets this response:

And lastly Nustrike who is quite known on Xda so he probably has some information behind his answers

Those are comments of people like U and me and everybody else. It is unofficial. It is their own opinion. None of those people ever touch a tegra powered device or a TG01. They just watch videos. I don't care if their famous in XDA. I don't even care if they are michael jackson. It is only their opinion. it's never proven. Their opinion is as good as urs and mine. Use ur own judgement.
The drivers are manufacturers responsibility not the OS.

RicoRich196 · #9 (**permalink**) 07-24-2009, 04:05 PM

The **** is yeah these people are like you and me but what about people who actually develop for the WM platform and develop apps who are saying the OS doesn't support this that and the third?

Like I get where your coming from completely but it's kind of like expecting Windows 95' to support the capabilities of a Core i7, it's just not going to happen no matter how Intel writes the drivers it's up to the OS to support it at least that's how it seems.

And the thing about not caring if they are known on XDA or not, the reason why I mentioned that is this guy knows a thing or two he's not just some random dude flapping his gums, it's like if No2Chem or DCD came out and explained how Windows Mobile was compiled and what not and how it's outdated, I wouldn't blow off their assessment because I know they probably know way more than I do.

**jethro_static** · #10 (**permalink**) 07-25-2009, 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RicoRich196

The **** is yeah these people are like you and me but what about people who actually develop for the WM platform and develop apps who are saying the OS doesn't support this that and the third?

Like I get where your coming from completely but it's kind of like expecting Windows 95' to support the capabilities of a Core i7, it's just not going to happen no matter how Intel writes the drivers it's up to the OS to support it at least that's how it seems.

And the thing about not caring if they are known on XDA or not, the reason why I mentioned that is this guy knows a thing or two he's not just some random dude flapping his gums, it's like if No2Chem or DCD came out and explained how Windows Mobile was compiled and what not and how it's outdated, I wouldn't blow off their assessment because I know they probably know way more than I do.

Ok. First there is no developer that said 6.1 cannot support their project. If they have a project that 6.1 cannot support, They wouldn't even mention it. I think ur already making up things to make a point here.
second, i7 will not be released if win95 is the only OS out there. i7 will stay on the stock room till an OS comes out to support it. ANd like I said b4. It is not meant for that OS. If U are trying to compare 6.1 being the win95 and i7 being the tegra/snapdragon, I think that not an accurate comparison. The more accurate is 6.1 being vista just bcoz it's the current OS when i7 came out. Vista surely supports i7. It's not perfect but M$ did not write a completely new OS to support new CPU's. They simply tweaked it with win7.
Those name U mentioned completely know what their talking about. I do not take that away from them. But there are topics that even them would not have an accurate opinion about. Only involved manufacturers will confirm what is supported or not. If they do not claim non support for something, Then we cannot assume the OS cannot support it.
Lastly, I ask U if U see Nvidia Tegra's demos using WinCE. Now they have an augmented reality app which is fairly new even to Iphones and androids. Tell me, On Nvidia demo, Do U see something wrong, something missing or missing support for whatever? If U answer no to all those 3, Then class dismissed.