any one watching the press conference? 7/16/2010

[NIKKG]

Originally Posted by gTen

If they knew about this they wouldn't have done it..reason for that being is people were saying how its Apple's fault for dropped calls on previous models, and others are saying its AT&T fault..so why would they take a chance at making it worse? I know companies ship out to meet deadlines with issues all the time..but an issue as simple as this they could have easily avoided...

I mean they did a parts check and the iphone ends up costing them 170$ to manufacture...whats $10 more to say add a 2nd antenna to the device?

also, to note, most iphones I seen are without cases

iphone does not cost 170 to manufacture, I would say its no more than 40-50 bucks tops. In fact, no phone cost more than 50 bucks, that includes EVO and anything else.

The most likely price breakdown for each phone:
lcd: $5
chip: 5
memory: 2
motherboard: 1
housing: 2
labor: .50
shipping:1
licensing and R & D: 30

These phones and computers don't cost nothing to make when you have slave labor. The real price comes from the actual sand, silicon, metal, and plastic which is no more than a few cents. The biggest chunk is licensing and research and the machinery.

If you don't believe me, check out some laptop prices. I've seen some laptops go on sale at retail for 300 or less. Think about it, the retailer makes their markup, the manufacturer makes their profit, and all the component suppliers make theirs including the shipping companies.

[gTen]

Originally Posted by NIKKG

iphone does not cost 170 to manufacture, I would say its no more than 40-50 bucks tops. In fact, no phone cost more than 50 bucks, that includes EVO and anything else.

The most likely price breakdown for each phone:
lcd: $5
chip: 5
memory: 2
motherboard: 1
housing: 2
labor: .50
shipping:1
licensing and R & D: 30

These phones and computers don't cost nothing to make when you have slave labor. The real price comes from the actual sand, silicon, metal, and plastic which is no more than a few cents. The biggest chunk is licensing and research and the machinery.

If you don't believe me, check out some laptop prices. I've seen some laptops go on sale at retail for 300 or less. Think about it, the retailer makes their markup, the manufacturer makes their profit, and all the component suppliers make theirs including the shipping companies.

http://www.boygeniusreport.com/2010/...o-manufacture/

I meant to Apple....but Apple does not make their own components...

[NIKKG]

Originally Posted by gTen

http://www.boygeniusreport.com/2010/...o-manufacture/

I meant to Apple....but Apple does not make their own components...

I was referring to isuppli. It does not cost anywhere near what isuppli says. When your selling units in the millions, you get pricing thats rock bottom. Isuppli has no idea what contract deals Apple has made with its vendors. I still think these phones cost no more than 50 at the very most. If Apple was gonna pay more, they'll just build their own factory and manufacture it themselves. Just like those bumpers and cases, they probably cost anywhere from 2-5 cents to produce. The packaging it comes in probably cost more.

When your dealing with major orders, say Apple with Samsung for processors, Samsung can give it to Apple at cost, say 10 cents each to make, and than charge Apple for use of its equipment, labor, and overhead expensives, etc. So overall, those processors probably cost no more than 5 bucks to Apple. There is a huge difference from what we pay and what huge manufacturers pay for components.

[gTen]

Originally Posted by NIKKG

I was referring to isuppli. It does not cost anywhere near what isuppli says. When your selling units in the millions, you get pricing thats rock bottom. Isuppli has no idea what contract deals Apple has made with its vendors. I still think these phones cost no more than 50 at the very most. If Apple was gonna pay more, they'll just build their own factory and manufacture it themselves. Just like those bumpers and cases, they probably cost anywhere from 2-5 cents to produce. The packaging it comes in probably cost more.

When your dealing with major orders, say Apple with Samsung for processors, Samsung can give it to Apple at cost, say 10 cents each to make, and than charge Apple for use of its equipment, labor, and overhead expensives, etc. So overall, those processors probably cost no more than 5 bucks to Apple. There is a huge difference from what we pay and what huge manufacturers pay for components.

Usually when checking cost of those parts the default pricing is based on buying 1000 or so..while Apple may get some discounts you can't say they get 3x the discount..The component manufacturer still need to make a profit...and there is also labor costs...

Apple wont go and build its own factories because it is not worth it.. factories cost hundred of millions to billions to construct...Apple only makes a few products in general, they are not a hardware manufacturer..it owuld nto be economic...

Example Samsung builds TVs and a supplier of LCDs, OLEDs and etc...so their factories are put to use for multiple things..to Apple it is not worth it as they only produce a few products...

With labor cost and etc 150-170$ is most likely what Apple pays...its not that bad considering they get commission from appstore + the device going for 200$ + them earning a % of the contract from AT&T and other carriers world wide..

[NIKKG]

Originally Posted by gTen

Usually when checking cost of those parts the default pricing is based on buying 1000 or so..while Apple may get some discounts you can't say they get 3x the discount..The component manufacturer still need to make a profit...and there is also labor costs...

Apple wont go and build its own factories because it is not worth it.. factories cost hundred of millions to billions to construct...Apple only makes a few products in general, they are not a hardware manufacturer..it owuld nto be economic...

Example Samsung builds TVs and a supplier of LCDs, OLEDs and etc...so their factories are put to use for multiple things..to Apple it is not worth it as they only produce a few products...

With labor cost and etc 150-170$ is most likely what Apple pays...its not that bad considering they get commission from appstore + the device going for 200$ + them earning a % of the contract from AT&T and other carriers world wide..

What labor cost? Why do you think they are putting the plants in these third world countries for? Labor their is maybe a few dollars a day for 12 hour, 7 days straight work, its nothing but legalized slavery. Trust me, I've seen how much it actually cost to produce things at various companies and its nothing as high as you might think. How do you think Jobs, Woz and Bill Gates got to be multi-billionaires? All the top execs at these tech companies are mega-rich. They basically took things that cost very little and sold it at extremely high markup that would make a Colombian drug boss proud. Even for the software, they fired all the American workers and outsourced it to Indians for pennies on the dollar.

For different example, say the shirts you buy from Express at the mall that retail for $50 dollars probably cost the company no more than $1 to produce. Some of the profit goes to paying the sales rep, rent etc and the rest to some rich execs.

I am not saying their is anything wrong with making a profit, but some of these extreme markups have gotten out of hand. Especially that bumper, charging 30 bucks for something that cost 5 cents to make should be a crime.

[gTen]

Originally Posted by NIKKG

What labor cost? Why do you think they are putting the plants in these third world countries for? Labor their is maybe a few dollars a day for 12 hour, 7 days straight work, its nothing but legalized slavery. Trust me, I've seen how much it actually cost to produce things at various companies and its nothing as high as you might think. How do you think Jobs, Woz and Bill Gates got to be multi-billionaires? All the top execs at these tech companies are mega-rich. They basically took things that cost very little and sold it at extremely high markup that would make a Colombian drug boss proud. Even for the software, they fired all the American workers and outsourced it to Indians for pennies on the dollar.

For different example, say the shirts you buy from Express at the mall that retail for $50 dollars probably cost the company no more than $1 to produce. Some of the profit goes to paying the sales rep, rent etc and the rest to some rich execs.

I am not saying their is anything wrong with making a profit, but some of these extreme markups have gotten out of hand. Especially that bumper, charging 30 bucks for something that cost 5 cents to make should be a crime.

Shirts are different then computer chips...they make HUGE profits yes..but do not think its so simple..for factories you gotta develop certain machinery to produce the equipment...this machinery costs lots of money...OLED for example is A LOT CHEAPER then LCD..but it costs so much because they already have lots of LCD machinery and little OLED machinery...

An example is the PS3..Sony was actually selling it AT A LOSS!!!! but now they have gotten the machinery to produce it cheaply and they are making a profit..

now lets do some math..if he sold 3 million iphones 4 at 150$ price point they would make 150 million dollars + 10$ a month from the contract would give them 30 million $ a month + all the apps people will buy...you don't call that HUGE profit?

[NIKKG]

Originally Posted by gTen

Shirts are different then computer chips...they make HUGE profits yes..but do not think its so simple..for factories you gotta develop certain machinery to produce the equipment...this machinery costs lots of money...OLED for example is A LOT CHEAPER then LCD..but it costs so much because they already have lots of LCD machinery and little OLED machinery...

An example is the PS3..Sony was actually selling it AT A LOSS!!!! but now they have gotten the machinery to produce it cheaply and they are making a profit..

now lets do some math..if he sold 3 million iphones 4 at 150$ price point they would make 150 million dollars + 10$ a month from the contract would give them 30 million $ a month + all the apps people will buy...you don't call that HUGE profit?

You just don't get it. Yes, machinery and all that stuff used to cost alot because you had Americans that designed all that stuff. Not anymore, its all being done by the slave wage countries. Over there, you can hire a Ph.D for less than 20k a year and he'll work harder and longer than a typical American here.

Things have changed drastically the past few years. I'm an engineer, I have engineer friends who work in these tech places and I'm telling you, the cost to make these things are much much cheaper than you think they are. Here is an example, my Acura has a key fob that the dealer charges 350 to buy new. My friend works for the company that actually produces it for Acura. He told me that key fob probably cost them no more than .50 cents to make at their plant in China. They probably sell it to Acura for 15 bucks and Acura charges the dealer 200-250.

So as I were saying, there is no way in hell Apple is paying 180 for the iphones, its no more than 50 bucks period. Also Sony never lost money on the PS3. These companies say that stuff as a marketing gimmick to make you think your getting a deal and also to get tax breaks. Its all BS.

[gTen]

Originally Posted by NIKKG

You just don't get it. Yes, machinery and all that stuff used to cost alot because you had Americans that designed all that stuff. Not anymore, its all being done by the slave wage countries. Over there, you can hire a Ph.D for less than 20k a year and he'll work harder and longer than a typical American here.

Things have changed drastically the past few years. I'm an engineer, I have engineer friends who work in these tech places and I'm telling you, the cost to make these things are much much cheaper than you think they are. Here is an example, my Acura has a key fob that the dealer charges 350 to buy new. My friend works for the company that actually produces it for Acura. He told me that key fob probably cost them no more than .50 cents to make at their plant in China. They probably sell it to Acura for 15 bucks and Acura charges the dealer 200-250.

So as I were saying, there is no way in hell Apple is paying 180 for the iphones, its no more than 50 bucks period. Also Sony never lost money on the PS3. These companies say that stuff as a marketing gimmick to make you think your getting a deal and also to get tax breaks. Its all BS.

So your saying sony is lying to their investors?

a key fob is not that complicated and has very little improvements...I know things are sold at huge profit but you also have to understand that some things require more then just labor...In terms of cars they have gotten cheaper, I used to own one made of hard metal, now its plastic that easily dents and they overcharge to repair it and repaint it...

But in a world of electronics it is different...technology changes..the same machine that made your device gets outdated the next year...

not to mention materials are not cheap either...look at it this way, a new pc with the best specs costs 4000$ for example..but in a year or 2 its value would be half if not 4 times less...why? because for that price you can get the same specs...

You cannot use the same materials you used to make LCDs in making AMOLEDs..not to mention the supply route costs premiums too..but as machinery is developed to easily mass produce the item the value drops...

It costs them 150$ to make the device...not only because of the items in it..but other factors as well..you also have to note that the $ is half of what it used to be a few years ago...yet we are buying better products for cheaper(at least feature wise, quality definitely went down)

While things are cheap don't think they are getting them for free either...

[fozmsu]

To Gten's point, I work for a company that makes jet engines, when we put a new engine on the market, it takes ten years to start showing a profit due to all the time and money invested in developing the technology. After that ten years, the profits are huge, but it takes time to get to that point.

[NIKKG]

Originally Posted by fozmsu

To Gten's point, I work for a company that makes jet engines, when we put a new engine on the market, it takes ten years to start showing a profit due to all the time and money invested in developing the technology. After that ten years, the profits are huge, but it takes time to get to that point.

Jet engines are a totally different story, they have to have top notch quality because peoples lives are in danger, plus government regulations have to be met. However, phones, computers and other tech devices are now just commodities that have slight variances every year to keep the product looking fresh.

Lets look at the PS3. Yes, it at first cost alot of money for Sony and Sony supposedly loses money on the first year, but thats not how a company usually values its investments. What they do is take the investment cost and divide it with the number of years the product will produce money for them. So say the PS3 cost them a billion dollars to make, well, dividing it by the number of years sold, say 5-10 years, and the price is only 100-200 million, and thats not even taking into account productivity gains etc. So overall, Sony never lost a penny on consoles. Thats how business is done, nobody expects to make money the first day because of the initial investment.

Now lets take Apple, they have been producing tech stuff for 30 years. They know the ins and outs of the business very well and know how to save money on parts and manufacturing. For them to pay 180 on a commodity like a phone is outrages. Samsung is using the same chip for their Galaxy phones, so more chips=lesser chip prices. The Gorilla glass iphone uses has been out in the market for years by DOW chemical. Memory prices have been low for many years now. High res screens have been in the market for years too. There is nothing new or extra ordinary to justify that phone costing more than 50 bucks to make. And that goes for any phone. All Apple did is take all those things and put it in a nice package and slap on a good OS. Same with HTC, they take the same tired junk thats on the market and slap it in a new frame and call it new again. The Touch Pro 1 and 2 only had a bigger screen and nicer keyboard, the rest of the internals were almost identical.