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-   -   Evo 4g/Evo 3D (http://forum.ppcgeeks.com/showthread.php?t=143179)

eagle2222222222 04-28-2011 04:52 PM
Evo 4g/Evo 3D
 
Putting aside the 3D aspect of the new 3D phone, it appears that the hardware and software are much better than we have now. I am about to be eligible for an upgrade this summer. Is there any reason at all not to upgrade to this phone?

teejay89 04-28-2011 04:58 PM
Re: Evo 4g/Evo 3D
 
None at all. My only caveat to that would be that I wouldn't pre-order it, unless you don't want it rooted or are okay waiting a couple weeks before having it rooted. Me personally, I won't be purchasing it until it's been out awhile. Hell, I may even wait to see how I like Sense 3.0 first as well, cause otherwise I might wait even longer for a working non-Sense rom or just upgrade to whatever the next "official" Google phone is.

BlackDynamite 04-28-2011 05:54 PM
I think it will be rooted quick, that isn't even a concern. It seems like most HTC phones are rooted before they even get released.

My concern is for a senseless ROM. I like the vanilla Android. And even now, we can't get 720p recording on senseless ROMs. How will it be when there are dual cameras recording in 3D?

Sauske 04-28-2011 06:23 PM
Re: Evo 4g/Evo 3D
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by teejay89 (Post 2093095)
None at all. My only caveat to that would be that I wouldn't pre-order it, unless you don't want it rooted or are okay waiting a couple weeks before having it rooted. Me personally, I won't be purchasing it until it's been out awhile. Hell, I may even wait to see how I like Sense 3.0 first as well, cause otherwise I might wait even longer for a working non-Sense rom or just upgrade to whatever the next "official" Google phone is.
On the contrary, the earlier the better my brother got the Evo when it first came out and I rooted his phone easily! Then I got mines later on with an different h-boot and then I had to wait:mad: for a work around. The longer you wait the more if gives Sprint time to upgrade security, and most people hate doing it the manual way (I prefer this method) and use Unrevoked!

gTen 04-28-2011 08:18 PM
Re: Evo 4g/Evo 3D
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by eagle2222222222 (Post 2093089)
Putting aside the 3D aspect of the new 3D phone, it appears that the hardware and software are much better than we have now. I am about to be eligible for an upgrade this summer. Is there any reason at all not to upgrade to this phone?
Yes its a HUGE upgrade..that aid Galaxy S 2 is still better..and by end of ear nvidia and qualcomm promises quadcores...that said we have no clue if thye will come to sprint or not :/

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackDynamite (Post 2093132)
I think it will be rooted quick, that isn't even a concern. It seems like most HTC phones are rooted before they even get released.
Its a big concern actually..from what the people who rooted the Thuderbolt said..the new HTC devices are locked like Motorola devices and not to be fooled by how quickly they unlocked it...and rumor is its going to get worse...on the other hand motorola is promising unlocked boot loaders lol

Even cyanogen is reconsidering HTC:

Twitter

ATM, HTC and Motorola are the hardest manufacturers to root...

BlackDynamite 04-28-2011 08:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gTen (Post 2093228)
Its a big concern actually..from what the people who rooted the Thuderbolt said..the new HTC devices are locked like Motorola devices and not to be fooled by how quickly they unlocked it...and rumor is its going to get worse...on the other hand motorola is promising unlocked boot loaders lol

Even cyanogen is reconsidering HTC:

Twitter

ATM, HTC and Motorola are the hardest manufacturers to root...
I'm not concerned. I think Verizon likes their phones locked down and that's why the Thunderbolt was like that. And even then, it was rooted before it was released. Sprint is more relaxed and HTC doesn't seem to mind.

Has there ever been an HTC device that didn't get rooted? I would not worry about it until there is actually a reason to worry.

gTen 04-28-2011 10:54 PM
Re: Evo 4g/Evo 3D
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackDynamite (Post 2093248)
I'm not concerned. I think Verizon likes their phones locked down and that's why the Thunderbolt was like that. And even then, it was rooted before it was released. Sprint is more relaxed and HTC doesn't seem to mind.
The team that unlocked it said it was not a Verizon only thing...and the reason why the unlock was fast was due to info gathered from the G2.

Quote:
Has there ever been an HTC device that didn't get rooted? I would not worry about it until there is actually a reason to worry.
Well has there ever been any phone that wasn't rootable? The problem usually lies in custom roms via locked bootloader.

BlackDynamite 04-28-2011 11:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gTen (Post 2093320)
Well has there ever been any phone that wasn't rootable? The problem usually lies in custom roms via locked bootloader.
I think there are a few Motorolas that never got rooted. I know for sure there are some Motorolas that can't have custom ROMs at least. Pretty sure there has never been an HTC smartphone, either WinMo or Android, that didn't get hardspl or rooted.

gTen 04-28-2011 11:23 PM
Re: Evo 4g/Evo 3D
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackDynamite (Post 2093328)
I think there are a few Motorolas that never got rooted. I know for sure there are some Motorolas that can't have custom ROMs at least. Pretty sure there has never been an HTC smartphone, either WinMo or Android, that didn't get hardspl or rooted.
I dont think Apache had hard spl :P..but I think it was just flash and go...

But every single HTC device was harder and harder to unlock from then on...generation by generation. Now with the G2 they have taken things up a notch...and with the Tbolt and the Incredible S they are right now on par with the Motorola phones..aka Signed boot loaders..from what I read only reason they were able to unlock tbolt was because they had a pre-release bootloader that they overwrite the original...so come june anything is possible :/

shane6374 04-28-2011 11:42 PM
Re: Evo 4g/Evo 3D
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by gTen (Post 2093338)
I dont think Apache had hard spl :P..but I think it was just flash and go...

But every single HTC device was harder and harder to unlock from then on...generation by generation. Now with the G2 they have taken things up a notch...and with the Tbolt and the Incredible S they are right now on par with the Motorola phones..aka Signed boot loaders..from what I read only reason they were able to unlock tbolt was because they had a pre-release bootloader that they overwrite the original...so come june anything is possible :/
The G2 was an F'n pain in the a$$ to root. Then once you have it rooted you can almost forget returning it to stock. Everytime my gf asks me to look at her phone I tell her how much I hate it.

What CM said on twitter is so true. At least Sammy hasn't decided to stop us yet.

Another example would be the month + it took to get the hard spl on the tp2. Let's face it, HTC just does not want us to root, flash or do anything on their phones anymore.

The worse part about it is that it was the modding community that made htc phones so popular.

BlackDynamite 04-29-2011 12:22 AM
Re: Evo 4g/Evo 3D
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by gTen (Post 2093338)
I dont think Apache had hard spl :P..but I think it was just flash and go...

But every single HTC device was harder and harder to unlock from then on...generation by generation. Now with the G2 they have taken things up a notch...and with the Tbolt and the Incredible S they are right now on par with the Motorola phones..aka Signed boot loaders..from what I read only reason they were able to unlock tbolt was because they had a pre-release bootloader that they overwrite the original...so come june anything is possible :/
HTC has had signed bootloaders for a long time now. But they conveniently "leak" one to over write it. This is nothing new. HTC has been extremely kind to the modding community from day 1. People are hacking their software and passing it around all over the internet, and yet not one single complaint from HTC about it. If you think we have something to worry about when it comes to hacking HTC phones, then I don't know what to tell you. But I will point out that for all of the talk about how hard it is to hack them, every single one has been hacked, with most of them being hacked before it was even released. If HTC was trying to put a stop to that, it would have been stopped years ago.

Not only could HTC implement the e-fuse that would essentially kill all hacking if they wanted to, but they would be issuing orders to sites like this one and xda that openly pass their Sense software around. The fact that none of that has happened over the years should tell you that there is nothing to worry about.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shane6374 (Post 2093345)
The G2 was an F'n pain in the a$$ to root. Then once you have it rooted you can almost forget returning it to stock. Everytime my gf asks me to look at her phone I tell her how much I hate it.

What CM said on twitter is so true. At least Sammy hasn't decided to stop us yet.

Another example would be the month + it took to get the hard spl on the tp2. Let's face it, HTC just does not want us to root, flash or do anything on their phones anymore.

The worse part about it is that it was the modding community that made htc phones so popular.
Correction- it did not take a month+ to get hard spl on the Touch Pro 2. The GSM version had hard spl shortly after release. The CDMA version took so long because the people who worked on it refused to release it until they had a licensing system in place and a way to charge for it. There was a working version without a licensing system for a while before that but nobody was allowed to share it because it was considered warez. That was a dark time, lol.

shane6374 04-29-2011 12:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackDynamite (Post 2093354)
HTC has had signed bootloaders for a long time now. But they conveniently "leak" one to over write it. This is nothing new. HTC has been extremely kind to the modding community from day 1. People are hacking their software and passing it around all over the internet, and yet not one single complaint from HTC about it. If you think we have something to worry about when it comes to hacking HTC phones, then I don't know what to tell you. But I will point out that for all of the talk about how hard it is to hack them, every single one has been hacked, with most of them being hacked before it was even released. If HTC was trying to put a stop to that, it would have been stopped years ago.

Not only could HTC implement the e-fuse that would essentially kill all hacking if they wanted to, but they would be issuing orders to sites like this one and xda that openly pass their Sense software around. The fact that none of that has happened over the years should tell you that there is nothing to worry about.


Correction- it did not take a month+ to get hard spl on the Touch Pro 2. The GSM version had hard spl shortly after release. The CDMA version took so long because the people who worked on it refused to release it until they had a licensing system in place and a way to charge for it. There was a working version without a licensing system for a while before that but nobody was allowed to share it because it was considered warez. That was a dark time, lol.
You are correct about the licencing, and I was speaking of the cdma tp2. Still, the tp2 was more difficult than it's predicecesors. Now the phones are getting even more difficult.

Wasn't it htc that tried to shut down shipped roms last year?

Sent from my Epic 4G running the midNIGHT rom via Tapatalk

BlackDynamite 04-29-2011 02:18 AM
Re: Evo 4g/Evo 3D
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by shane6374 (Post 2093365)
You are correct about the licencing, and I was speaking of the cdma tp2. Still, the tp2 was more difficult than it's predicecesors. Now the phones are getting even more difficult.

Wasn't it htc that tried to shut down shipped roms last year?

Sent from my Epic 4G running the midNIGHT rom via Tapatalk
Shut down shipped ROMs? I am not aware of that. HTC is known for "leaking" ROMs ahead of time, and then those ROMs getting rooted before they are even released. See the Evo's "leaked" Gingerbread ROM for a recent example of this. I honestly can't think of HTC ever trying to shut anything down. And that is really saying something, considering sites like xda (and even this site) got to be pretty huge by hacking HTC software and letting users freely share it. It's been going on for many years now, and I can't think of a single time HTC ever complained about it or tried to stop it.

I actually remember a few times when Microsoft tried to put a stop to it when people were sharing unreleased versions of WinMo (which were likely leaked from the same people leaking the HTC ROMs throughout the years). But HTC has never tried to hinder development.

I can understand the carriers telling HTC to lock the phones down or they won't carry them. I would be shocked if that hasn't happened. But I can also see HTC locking the phones down to satisfy the carriers, and then "leaking" the tools to unlock the phones.

I'm not the slightest bit worried about not being able to hack/customize/whatever an HTC phone. It has never happened in the past, so I don't see any reason to worry about it happening in the future. And if it did happen, lots of customers (myself included) would drop HTC and move on to another manufacturer.

gTen 04-29-2011 05:51 AM
Re: Evo 4g/Evo 3D
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackDynamite (Post 2093354)
HTC has had signed bootloaders for a long time now. But they conveniently "leak" one to over write it. This is nothing new. HTC has been extremely kind to the modding community from day 1. People are hacking their software and passing it around all over the internet, and yet not one single complaint from HTC about it. If you think we have something to worry about when it comes to hacking HTC phones, then I don't know what to tell you. But I will point out that for all of the talk about how hard it is to hack them, every single one has been hacked, with most of them being hacked before it was even released. If HTC was trying to put a stop to that, it would have been stopped years ago.
What other HTC phone has a signed locked bootloader and signed recovery image in the past?

Also its not a carrier thing as International versions of new phones are carrying these protections as well..

Aka the trend is every generation, unlocking has become harder and harder...right now the tbolt and incredible s are locked down on par with Droid X...the next generation by trend will be even more locked down by trend.

[QUOTE[
Not only could HTC implement the e-fuse that would essentially kill all hacking if they wanted to, but they would be issuing orders to sites like this one and xda that openly pass their Sense software around. The fact that none of that has happened over the years should tell you that there is nothing to worry about.
[/QUOTE]

HTC Sends Cease & Desist to Hackers Shipped-ROMs

it has happened...though they werent trying t shut it down..it was a cease and desist..long story...

shane6374 04-29-2011 08:29 AM
Thank gTen. That link is what I was refering to. No HTC didn't try to shut the site down, but it still would have severly cripled the site had they not come to an agreement.

Sent from my Epic 4G running the midNIGHT rom via Tapatalk

BlackDynamite 04-29-2011 01:06 PM
Re: Evo 4g/Evo 3D
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by gTen (Post 2093469)
What other HTC phone has a signed locked bootloader and signed recovery image in the past?

Also its not a carrier thing as International versions of new phones are carrying these protections as well..

Aka the trend is every generation, unlocking has become harder and harder...right now the tbolt and incredible s are locked down on par with Droid X...the next generation by trend will be even more locked down by trend.


HTC Sends Cease & Desist to Hackers Shipped-ROMs

it has happened...though they werent trying t shut it down..it was a cease and desist..long story...
Are you serious? lol, You don't have to go back too far to find another example of this. The Evo was rooted using this same exact method. It has a signed bootloader but another one was "leaked" and used.

As for that letter, I don't know what to make of it. I have never heard of that site so I don't know what they were doing that upset HTC. Heck, i don't even know if that letter is real. Like I said, this site and xda have both been going strong for years without a peep from HTC. Xda is even named after an HTC phone! And even in the link, the author of the article finds it curious that sites like xda have never heard a complaint. So take that letter with a grain of salt.

Again, there has never been an HTC Android or WinMo phone that didn't get rooted/hardspl/whatever you want to call it. So all of this "concern" that we will suddenly not be able to root one is a bunch of unwarranted paranoia. HTC has been the most friendly manufacturer to the hacking and modding community over the years. So to say we have to be worried about being able to root the next htc phone is akin to wearing a tin foil hat.

I say again, xda is probably the biggest smartphone hacking site on the net. Their site is named after an HTC phone and up until pretty recently they only had HTC forums. And yet they have never had any problems whatsoever from HTC (they have got a few cease and desist letters from Microsoft over the years though). Same thing with this site- never a peep from HTC.

You can be concerned if you want to. I'll wait until I have an actual reason to be concerned. People can say what they want about how hard it is to root HTC phones. But the fact remains that there has never been an HTC phone that didn't get rooted, with most of them getting rooted before they were even released. Including the Evo, and the Thunderbolt, which both had the scary signed bootloaders that we should be worried about, lol.

gTen 04-29-2011 02:16 PM
Re: Evo 4g/Evo 3D
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackDynamite (Post 2093717)
Are you serious? lol, You don't have to go back too far to find another example of this. The Evo was rooted using this same exact method. It has a signed bootloader but another one was "leaked" and used.
I thought Evo was locked bootloader + signed images..you sure the bootloader itself was signed?

Quote:
As for that letter, I don't know what to make of it. I have never heard of that site so I don't know what they were doing that upset HTC. Heck, i don't even know if that letter is real. Like I said, this site and xda have both been going strong for years without a peep from HTC. Xda is even named after an HTC phone! And even in the link, the author of the article finds it curious that sites like xda have never heard a complaint. So take that letter with a grain of salt.
Shipped-Roms was owned by Conflipper, now it belongs to ppcgeeks >.> lol


Quote:
Again, there has never been an HTC Android or WinMo phone that didn't get rooted/hardspl/whatever you want to call it. So all of this "concern" that we will suddenly not be able to root one is a bunch of unwarranted paranoia. HTC has been the most friendly manufacturer to the hacking and modding community over the years. So to say we have to be worried about being able to root the next htc phone is akin to wearing a tin foil hat.
I disagree with HTC being the most developer friendly..for one HTC and Motorola devices are hardest to root out of them all and they dont follow the GPL..aka release source code on time....the only reason we used HTC was because it literally was our only option :/


Quote:
I say again, xda is probably the biggest smartphone hacking site on the net. Their site is named after an HTC phone and up until pretty recently they only had HTC forums. And yet they have never had any problems whatsoever from HTC (they have got a few cease and desist letters from Microsoft over the years though). Same thing with this site- never a peep from HTC.
They havent yet..but they are changing over the years..not saying that they will...

Quote:
You can be concerned if you want to. I'll wait until I have an actual reason to be concerned. People can say what they want about how hard it is to root HTC phones. But the fact remains that there has never been an HTC phone that didn't get rooted, with most of them getting rooted before they were even released. Including the Evo, and the Thunderbolt, which both had the scary signed bootloaders that we should be worried about, lol.
um..FYI those root methods were not perma root..they were temporary roots..but if you want to count time..then some Android phones were rooted 1 year before they came out..why? because all the other phones root using the exact same method...except the HTC phones..and I think Motorola...

There is a room for concern because it gets harder every single time...

BlackDynamite 04-29-2011 03:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gTen (Post 2093776)
I thought Evo was locked bootloader + signed images..you sure the bootloader itself was signed?
Well I'm not the one who rooted it so I can't say for 100% certainty, but I read on xda that the Evo had a signed boot loader exactly like the G2 and Thunderbolt, and all were rooted using the same method- a leaked image.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gTen (Post 2093776)
Shipped-Roms was owned by Conflipper, now it belongs to ppcgeeks >.> lol
And yet ppcgeeks had never had any problems from htc. So that leads me to believe that if shipped roms had trouble from htc, it wasn't related to them hacking htc software or devices.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gTen (Post 2093776)
I disagree with HTC being the most developer friendly..for one HTC and Motorola devices are hardest to root out of them all and they dont follow the GPL..aka release source code on time....the only reason we used HTC was because it literally was our only option :/
HTC devices may be hard to root, but they are still extremely friendly to developers. They "leak" the images needed to root the devices, and every ROM and even updates to ROMs get leaked well ahead of release (like the Evo gingerbread ROM for example).

Quote:
Originally Posted by gTen (Post 2093776)
They havent yet..but they are changing over the years..not saying that they will...
I don't think they're changing. They lock the devices at the carriers' request, then they "leak" the key to the lock to the community. Until some HTC device is unrootable, or uses an e-fuse (like motorola) then there is no reason to worry.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gTen (Post 2093776)
um..FYI those root methods were not perma root..they were temporary roots..but if you want to count time..then some Android phones were rooted 1 year before they came out..why? because all the other phones root using the exact same method...except the HTC phones..and I think Motorola...
The method it gets rooted is not relevant. The bottom line is it still gets rooted, and often before the device is even released. It may be a few more steps to root it, but it still gets rooted.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gTen (Post 2093776)
There is a room for concern because it gets harder every single time...
It does not get harder every single time, lol. The Evo used the same method as the Thunderbolt.

gTen 04-29-2011 04:31 PM
Re: Evo 4g/Evo 3D
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackDynamite (Post 2093854)
Well I'm not the one who rooted it so I can't say for 100% certainty, but I read on xda that the Evo had a signed boot loader exactly like the G2 and Thunderbolt, and all were rooted using the same method- a leaked image.
Didn't G2 have the thing where the phone would return to stock if you modify it in any way? thats new...also Ive searched the web and I only see 1 person claim the Evo bootloader is signed on xda..everywhere else I read just says locked...so oreo...

Quote:
And yet ppcgeeks had never had any problems from htc. So that leads me to believe that if shipped roms had trouble from htc, it wasn't related to them hacking htc software or devices.
Let me reiterate..you mentioned sense..that C&D was on sense...not hacking...they cant stop people from hacking due to the court ruling.

Quote:
HTC devices may be hard to root, but they are still extremely friendly to developers. They "leak" the images needed to root the devices, and every ROM and even updates to ROMs get leaked well ahead of release (like the Evo gingerbread ROM for example).
All the other manufacturers leaked roms as well..nothing new...its like someone locking you in jail then releases you..would you call tat being nice?

Quote:
I don't think they're changing. They lock the devices at the carriers' request, then they "leak" the key to the lock to the community. Until some HTC device is unrootable, or uses an e-fuse (like motorola) then there is no reason to worry.
Thats what people thought too..but the carrierless unlocked version overseas was locked in the same manner as well..so the assumption is that its HTC...They already copied everything else from motorola in terms of locking..so I guess efuse is next step?

Quote:
The method it gets rooted is not relevant. The bottom line is it still gets rooted, and often before the device is even released. It may be a few more steps to root it, but it still gets rooted.
Well it does matter...I mean its much safer to root when they dont pull stunts like that :/..and temp root is not same as perma root...

Quote:
It does not get harder every single time, lol. The Evo used the same method as the Thunderbolt.
it does use same method and more..as I said every single time they add more to the locking of the phone..so it uses same method + more...

BlackDynamite 04-30-2011 01:15 AM
Re: Evo 4g/Evo 3D
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by gTen (Post 2093964)
Didn't G2 have the thing where the phone would return to stock if you modify it in any way? thats new...also Ive searched the web and I only see 1 person claim the Evo bootloader is signed on xda..everywhere else I read just says locked...so oreo...
It was no different from the Evo. The G2 went back to stock, the Evo didn't let you make the change in the first place. The rooting technique is the same for both- use a temporary root method, and then flash a new image during the recovery which allows for a more permanent change. When the Evo was first rooted, it was only a temporary root that didn't even survive a reboot, and it ran automatically every time the device rebooted.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gTen (Post 2093964)
Let me reiterate..you mentioned sense..that C&D was on sense...not hacking...they cant stop people from hacking due to the court ruling.
And that doesn't change my point at all. Not sure why you even mentioned it. Look at xda. Heck look at this very site. Sense is being tossed around in almost every ROM thread on both of these sites. Even unreleased versions of Sense, and versions from other devices. Yet neither site has heard a peep from HTC. In fact, both sites keep getting "leaked" versions of HTC updates/ROMs/Sense/etc to play with long before they even get officially released. You think these sites are just on an incredible lucky streak to somehow get every single HTC update and ROM for every device long before it gets released? I tend to think the simplest answer is usually the correct answer- occams razor. In this case, that would be that HTC is the friendliest manufacturer to hackers and they leak these on purpose directly to the people who can actually do something with it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gTen (Post 2093964)
All the other manufacturers leaked roms as well..nothing new...its like someone locking you in jail then releases you..would you call tat being nice?
It's not at all like that, lol. HTC leaking ROMs is not even comparable to anyone else leaking ROMs. Like I said, we had the latest version of Sense running on Evo's several months ago (thanks to leaked ROMs from other devices). We've had the Evo's gingerbread ROM (sense and all) leaked and running for a while now too. And not a peep from HTC. It's actually expected that pretty much every HTC device will have it's software hacked and ported to older devices. And it usually happens before the device is even released.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gTen (Post 2093964)
Thats what people thought too..but the carrierless unlocked version overseas was locked in the same manner as well..so the assumption is that its HTC...They already copied everything else from motorola in terms of locking..so I guess efuse is next step?
HTC will never go to an efuse. Again, they have not made any effort whatsoever to stop the hacking that goes on. On the contrary, they have "leaked" signed images for all of their devices which basically guarantees they will be hacked. If xda or ppcgeeks ever gets a cease and desist from HTC, then you will have a point. But they are the opposite. Not only are they not getting cease and desist letters, but they are getting ROMs, updates, software, etc, leaked every time there is something new.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gTen (Post 2093964)
Well it does matter...I mean its much safer to root when they dont pull stunts like that :/..and temp root is not same as perma root...
The temp root is used to apply the permanent root. In a nutshell, the device gets temporarily rooted, and while it is rooted a new recovery image is flashed that has a signed image and allows flashing custom ROMs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gTen (Post 2093964)
it does use same method and more..as I said every single time they add more to the locking of the phone..so it uses same method + more...
They aren't adding any more, lol. It's the same technique being used to root these phones.

When there is an HTC phone that can't be rooted, then you might have a point. But it seems pretty crazy to get all worried about it when every single one has been rooted, often before it was even released.

I'll tell you what- you worry about it and I won't. When it gets released, we'll see if you wasted your time worrying about it, or if I wasted my time not worrying about it. Looking at the history, I'd say it's a pretty safe bet which one of us would have wasted their time and which one of us wouldn't have. There is no reason at all to worry about this. The next Evo will absolutely be rooted, and probably before it is even released.

gTen 04-30-2011 02:23 AM
Re: Evo 4g/Evo 3D
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackDynamite (Post 2094297)
It was no different from the Evo. The G2 went back to stock, the Evo didn't let you make the change in the first place. The rooting technique is the same for both- use a temporary root method, and then flash a new image during the recovery which allows for a more permanent change. When the Evo was first rooted, it was only a temporary root that didn't even survive a reboot, and it ran automatically every time the device rebooted.
umm...just because the same technique is used does not mean there is no difference..its like cooking a fish and a pig...just cause both require you to cut them with a knife does not mean that its an identical process...

Let me give an example, on most other devices, I can use the same root method 100% with 0 modification...on G2 you saying if I swap the bootloader and follow the Evo instructions 100% it will work? I think not...

Quote:
And that doesn't change my point at all. Not sure why you even mentioned it. Look at xda. Heck look at this very site. Sense is being tossed around in almost every ROM thread on both of these sites. Even unreleased versions of Sense, and versions from other devices. Yet neither site has heard a peep from HTC. In fact, both sites keep getting "leaked" versions of HTC updates/ROMs/Sense/etc to play with long before they even get officially released. You think these sites are just on an incredible lucky streak to somehow get every single HTC update and ROM for every device long before it gets released? I tend to think the simplest answer is usually the correct answer- occams razor.
um..leaks are not uncommon.I mean it only requires 1 employee with access and willingness to share...as for C&D, due to new judge ruling it makes it harder..but overall HTC has nothing to gain in going after xda and ppcg...if anything it will get them bad publicity...

Quote:
In this case, that would be that HTC is the friendliest manufacturer to hackers and they leak these on purpose directly to the people who can actually do something with it.
um..what do you base this on exactly? all the other manufacturers give us as much resources as HTC and more..HTC has even yet to release source code on a few devices aka violating the GPL..some other manufacturers give us source code even before device comes out. Not to mention leaks and etc..leaks are not that uncommon..so I wouldnt call HTC the most dev friendly when other manufacturers are definitely more dev friendly.

Quote:
It's not at all like that, lol. HTC leaking ROMs is not even comparable to anyone else leaking ROMs. Like I said, we had the latest version of Sense running on Evo's several months ago (thanks to leaked ROMs from other devices). We've had the Evo's gingerbread ROM (sense and all) leaked and running for a while now too. And not a peep from HTC. It's actually expected that pretty much every HTC device will have it's software hacked and ported to older devices. And it usually happens before the device is even released.
You do know that Galaxy S and Droid X got gingerbread leaks before the Evo did right? so how can you call it not being comparable....

Things get ported to older devices because HTC has a HUGE dev community due to HTC being the ONLY choice mostly here in the US..times re changing..we have choice now...

Quote:
HTC will never go to an efuse. Again, they have not made any effort whatsoever to stop the hacking that goes on. On the contrary, they have "leaked" signed images for all of their devices which basically guarantees they will be hacked. If xda or ppcgeeks ever gets a cease and desist from HTC, then you will have a point. But they are the opposite. Not only are they not getting cease and desist letters, but they are getting ROMs, updates, software, etc, leaked every time there is something new.
By them locking the device more and more every time in itself proves they are making an effort..implementing tech like efuse is not so simple and requires licensing and etc..

Quote:
The temp root is used to apply the permanent root. In a nutshell, the device gets temporarily rooted, and while it is rooted a new recovery image is flashed that has a signed image and allows flashing custom ROMs.

They aren't adding any more, lol. It's the same technique being used to root these phones.
They now have a signed recovery too...

Quote:
When there is an HTC phone that can't be rooted, then you might have a point. But it seems pretty crazy to get all worried about it when every single one has been rooted, often before it was even released.
there is nothing that cant be rooted...as the saying goes "As long as you give physical access it can be compromised"..even the older Motorola devices can be rooted give an effort by the community..but thats not the point when they make it needlessly complicated posing devices to more bricks and etc..

Quote:
I'll tell you what- you worry about it and I won't. When it gets released, we'll see if you wasted your time worrying about it, or if I wasted my time not worrying about it. Looking at the history, I'd say it's a pretty safe bet which one of us would have wasted their time and which one of us wouldn't have. There is no reason at all to worry about this. The next Evo will absolutely be rooted, and probably before it is even released.
I am not doubting that it will be rooted..but at the same time I am not doubting that it will be harder to root...as every single time the security of the phone goes up.

BlackDynamite 04-30-2011 03:38 AM
Re: Evo 4g/Evo 3D
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by gTen (Post 2094323)
umm...just because the same technique is used does not mean there is no difference..its like cooking a fish and a pig...just cause both require you to cut them with a knife does not mean that its an identical process...
It doesn't mean one is progressively harder to the point where we should be concerned that it might not be possible to cook the next one either.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gTen (Post 2094323)
Let me give an example, on most other devices, I can use the same root method 100% with 0 modification...on G2 you saying if I swap the bootloader and follow the Evo instructions 100% it will work? I think not...
You seem to be stuck on the fact that that HTC devices are rooted differently. And you are wrong, by the way. There are a few rooting techniques for each device, and yes, some of them are identical with different files but the exact same instructions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gTen (Post 2094323)
um..leaks are not uncommon.I mean it only requires 1 employee with access and willingness to share...as for C&D, due to new judge ruling it makes it harder..but overall HTC has nothing to gain in going after xda and ppcg...if anything it will get them bad publicity...
Forget that new judge ruling. Xda and ppcgeeks have been in business long before that ruling, and HTC never went after them. The fact that HTC never went after them has nothing to do with that judge ruling. Like I said, I remember when Microsoft sent cease and desist letters to xda. HTC didn't.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gTen (Post 2094323)
um..what do you base this on exactly? all the other manufacturers give us as much resources as HTC and more..HTC has even yet to release source code on a few devices aka violating the GPL..some other manufacturers give us source code even before device comes out. Not to mention leaks and etc..leaks are not that uncommon..so I wouldnt call HTC the most dev friendly when other manufacturers are definitely more dev friendly.
I base it on the fact that HTC always gives the community the tools needed to hack their phones, has never tried to stop the hacking, and leaks all of their ROMs and updates giving the community plenty of time to prepare for whatever security techniques are being used.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gTen (Post 2094323)
You do know that Galaxy S and Droid X got gingerbread leaks before the Evo did right? so how can you call it not being comparable....
And I know that we not only had the new Sense leaked by that time, but we already had custom ROMs created and flashed for the Evo running the new Sense over a week before the first Galaxy S Gingerbread leak. And Froyo for the Evo leaked way before it did for the Galaxy S.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gTen (Post 2094323)
Things get ported to older devices because HTC has a HUGE dev community due to HTC being the ONLY choice mostly here in the US..times re changing..we have choice now...
And yet xda is still the biggest site with mostly HTC related traffic and forums, and lots if international users. I'm not buying it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gTen (Post 2094323)
By them locking the device more and more every time in itself proves they are making an effort..implementing tech like efuse is not so simple and requires licensing and etc..
They aren't locking it more and more every time, lol. It's the same technique on pretty much all of them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gTen (Post 2094323)
They now have a signed recovery too...
That's nothing new. It's been a signed recovery for a while now. Lucky for us they "leak" a signed version that we can replace it with.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gTen (Post 2094323)
there is nothing that cant be rooted...as the saying goes "As long as you give physical access it can be compromised"..even the older Motorola devices can be rooted give an effort by the community..but thats not the point when they make it needlessly complicated posing devices to more bricks and etc..
That's not true. There are motorola devices that can't have custom ROMs to this day. Sure they might get cracked at some point well after the device lifespan has already ended. But we're talking abotu HTC devices that are always rooted either before the device is released or within a day after it getting released.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gTen (Post 2094323)
I am not doubting that it will be rooted..but at the same time I am not doubting that it will be harder to root...as every single time the security of the phone goes up.
It has not been harder to root every single time, lol. It has been the same technique. If by harder you mean "typing lots of things into a command line when the last device had 1 click root" then I say wait and 1 click root will be made, just like it was for every other device before it. If you are talking about the actual technique that makes root access possible, then it is the same technique used on all of these devices. they are all locked and signed, they all use a temporary root and then flash a signed recovery while temporarily rooted.

Again, I reiterate, there is no reason to worry. The Evo 3D absolutely WILL be rooted, probably before it is even released. Anyone saying they will hold off on purchasing the Evo 3D because they are worried about it possibly not getting rooted, is worrying about a non issue. HTC has been very kind to the community over the many years of them making smartphones. I see absolutely no reason why that should suddenly change.

I find it hillarious that someone would say everyone should be worried about an HTC device not being able to be rooted, and they cite for evidence a bunch of HTC devices that were rooted either before they were even released or within a day of getting released.

Yeah, the Evo 3D might be harder to root. That means I might have to type in adb a little bit to root it on day 1 or I will have to wait a day for the 1 click root. lol

gTen 04-30-2011 08:24 AM
Re: Evo 4g/Evo 3D
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackDynamite (Post 2094338)
It doesn't mean one is progressively harder to the point where we should be concerned that it might not be possible to cook the next one either.
Again I am saying nothing is impossible to root and get a custom rom on.. remember the ps3 was said to be unhackable and got hacked...its a matter of having a strong enough community, resources and time.

Quote:
You seem to be stuck on the fact that that HTC devices are rooted differently. And you are wrong, by the way. There are a few rooting techniques for each device, and yes, some of them are identical with different files but the exact same instructions.
Because they are...

Quote:
Forget that new judge ruling. Xda and ppcgeeks have been in business long before that ruling, and HTC never went after them. The fact that HTC never went after them has nothing to do with that judge ruling. Like I said, I remember when Microsoft sent cease and desist letters to xda. HTC didn't.
All I am saying is as HTC has been growing bigger they have been changing..its nothing new..I mean a year ago most people would not have seen M$ doing what they did with WP7..yet they did..you cant tell me a Hero for example is same rooting method that an Evo...and we know G2 has the new recovery thing going..its indisputable that they are increasing it...and we dont know by how much...this doesnt mean that we wont be able to root it..it just makes it a bigger pain.

Quote:
I base it on the fact that HTC always gives the community the tools needed to hack their phones, has never tried to stop the hacking, and leaks all of their ROMs and updates giving the community plenty of time to prepare for whatever security techniques are being used.
But so do the manufacturers...but they dont put signed bootloaders to begin with.

Quote:
And I know that we not only had the new Sense leaked by that time, but we already had custom ROMs created and flashed for the Evo running the new Sense over a week before the first Galaxy S Gingerbread leak. And Froyo for the Evo leaked way before it did for the Galaxy S.
um..you do know that the first Gingerbread leak for the Galaxy S was in February..thats even before nexus one got gingerbread..by the time Evo got its first leak, Gingerbread already hit official release on the Galaxy S.


Quote:
And yet xda is still the biggest site with mostly HTC related traffic and forums, and lots if international users. I'm not buying it.
HTC was effectively one of the only choices for winmo and android for a huge amount of time..and as early devices were easy to hack thus spur the growth...back when xda first came out, HTC didnt even release phones under their own brand...

Quote:
They aren't locking it more and more every time, lol. It's the same technique on pretty much all of them.

That's nothing new. It's been a signed recovery for a while now. Lucky for us they "leak" a signed version that we can replace it with.

That's not true. There are motorola devices that can't have custom ROMs to this day. Sure they might get cracked at some point well after the device lifespan has already ended. But we're talking abotu HTC devices that are always rooted either before the device is released or within a day after it getting released.
The devices that are unhackable are older gen and just didnt have the community to support them..if we wanted to we could hack them...trust me...also it took months to get custom roms on a G2...

Quote:
It has not been harder to root every single time, lol. It has been the same technique. If by harder you mean "typing lots of things into a command line when the last device had 1 click root" then I say wait and 1 click root will be made, just like it was for every other device before it. If you are talking about the actual technique that makes root access possible, then it is the same technique used on all of these devices. they are all locked and signed, they all use a temporary root and then flash a signed recovery while temporarily rooted.

Again, I reiterate, there is no reason to worry. The Evo 3D absolutely WILL be rooted, probably before it is even released. Anyone saying they will hold off on purchasing the Evo 3D because they are worried about it possibly not getting rooted, is worrying about a non issue. HTC has been very kind to the community over the many years of them making smartphones. I see absolutely no reason why that should suddenly change.

I find it hillarious that someone would say everyone should be worried about an HTC device not being able to be rooted, and they cite for evidence a bunch of HTC devices that were rooted either before they were even released or within a day of getting released.

Yeah, the Evo 3D might be harder to root. That means I might have to type in adb a little bit to root it on day 1 or I will have to wait a day for the 1 click root. lol
The thunderbolt took 72 hours to root after it came out...thats not next day...I am not saying that itll be impossible but I guarantee you its going to get harder and harder by trend..

BlackDynamite 04-30-2011 01:14 PM
Re: Evo 4g/Evo 3D
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by gTen (Post 2094354)
Again I am saying nothing is impossible to root and get a custom rom on.. remember the ps3 was said to be unhackable and got hacked...its a matter of having a strong enough community, resources and time.
Again, there are several motorola devices that right now can't have a custom ROM. Devices that are already past their end of life, so nobody even cares about them anymore. Meaning they went their entire regular life cycle without anyone figuring out how to put a custom ROM on there. That has never happened with HTC. Most HTC phones are rooted before they are even released.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gTen (Post 2094354)
All I am saying is as HTC has been growing bigger they have been changing..its nothing new..I mean a year ago most people would not have seen M$ doing what they did with WP7..yet they did..you cant tell me a Hero for example is same rooting method that an Evo...and we know G2 has the new recovery thing going..its indisputable that they are increasing it...and we dont know by how much...this doesnt mean that we wont be able to root it..it just makes it a bigger pain.
I don't know about the Hero and what they used to root it (was on a Touch Pro 2 back then) but I know the Evo, Thunderbolt, and G2 are all rooted the same way. And the recovery being locked on the G2 is no different than the recovery on the Evo or Thunderbolt being locked. All were rooted using the same technique, and nobody had to wait for it on any of those devices.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gTen (Post 2094354)
But so do the manufacturers...but they dont put signed bootloaders to begin with.
Motorola does. I don't know who else does or doesn't, but I know HTC is certainly not the only ones. HTC does give the key to unlock it though (they "leak" it at least in the form of a "test" recovery image).

Quote:
Originally Posted by gTen (Post 2094354)
um..you do know that the first Gingerbread leak for the Galaxy S was in February..thats even before nexus one got gingerbread..by the time Evo got its first leak, Gingerbread already hit official release on the Galaxy S.
Yes, I know that the Gingerbread leak for the Galaxy S was on February 28. I also know there is a ROM on this very site for the Evo running the newest Sense. And that ROM was last updated on February 23. So they not only had the files before then, but they the files long enough before then to have a ROM compiled for the Evo that was good enough to not even be updated since February 23. I also know the Desire's Gingerbread ROM leaked out a week later, March 7.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gTen (Post 2094354)
HTC was effectively one of the only choices for winmo and android for a huge amount of time..and as early devices were easy to hack thus spur the growth...back when xda first came out, HTC didnt even release phones under their own brand...
I'm not disputing any of that. What I am disputing is your claim that HTC is no longer friendly to the hacking community. They most definitely are. It's hillarious that you would even make such a claim when every HTC phone is hacked, mostly before they are even released.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gTen (Post 2094354)
The devices that are unhackable are older gen and just didnt have the community to support them..if we wanted to we could hack them...trust me...also it took months to get custom roms on a G2...
Wrong again, lol. Yes, there are older gen devices that were never able to have custom ROMs, but there are newer devices that still can't have them (Motorola Bravo).

Quote:
Originally Posted by gTen (Post 2094354)
The thunderbolt took 72 hours to root after it came out...thats not next day...I am not saying that itll be impossible but I guarantee you its going to get harder and harder by trend..
Wrong again, lol. TRhe Thunderbolt was rooted before it was even released. See this, dated 3-18-2011, with instructions on how to do it (the device started shipping 3-17-11):
[Exclusive] How To Root The HTC Thunderbolt – Instructions By Team AndIRC (V1.02 2011/03/18) | Android News, Reviews, Apps, Games, Phones, Tablets, Tips, Mods, Videos, Tutorials - Android Police
Release date info:
HTC Thunderbolt Release Date Here - Verizon... | Gather


Lets revisit how this all got started... Someone said they would not preorder the device because they thought it might not get rooted. I said that was not anything that I'm worried about. You then said we should be worried about it. It appears that you now concede the device will be rooted, either before it is released or in very short order after it is released.

gTen 04-30-2011 02:06 PM
Re: Evo 4g/Evo 3D
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackDynamite (Post 2094436)
Again, there are several motorola devices that right now can't have a custom ROM. Devices that are already past their end of life, so nobody even cares about them anymore. Meaning they went their entire regular life cycle without anyone figuring out how to put a custom ROM on there. That has never happened with HTC. Most HTC phones are rooted before they are even released.
Because those devices were not popular...popularity plays a huge roll in the speed the community releases stuff..the devices in question could be rooted if there was a demand for it..aka if next Droid X had it, it would be rooted.

Quote:
I don't know about the Hero and what they used to root it (was on a Touch Pro 2 back then) but I know the Evo, Thunderbolt, and G2 are all rooted the same way. And the recovery being locked on the G2 is no different than the recovery on the Evo or Thunderbolt being locked. All were rooted using the same technique, and nobody had to wait for it on any of those devices.
There was a wait on custom roms for the g2..it too a month for them to get perma root and break the emmc.

Quote:
Motorola does. I don't know who else does or doesn't, but I know HTC is certainly not the only ones. HTC does give the key to unlock it though (they "leak" it at least in the form of a "test" recovery image).
To my knowledge HTC and Motorola are only ones..LG, Samsung, Asus, viewsonic are all unsigned...heck Sony even does unsigned bootloaders and is now offering a website that tells people how to unlock their bootloaders...

Quote:
Yes, I know that the Gingerbread leak for the Galaxy S was on February 28. I also know there is a ROM on this very site for the Evo running the newest Sense. And that ROM was last updated on February 23. So they not only had the files before then, but they the files long enough before then to have a ROM compiled for the Evo that was good enough to not even be updated since February 23. I also know the Desire's Gingerbread ROM leaked out a week later, March 7.
I am looking around and I can't find the feb 23rd.only feb 23 rom I found with new sense is still 2.2....as for march 7th..by then there was already 3 leaked gingerbread roms for i9000...

Quote:
I'm not disputing any of that. What I am disputing is your claim that HTC is no longer friendly to the hacking community. They most definitely are. It's hillarious that you would even make such a claim when every HTC phone is hacked, mostly before they are even released.
IF you call locking you up in jail then giving you a key friendly be my guest :/...if other manufacturers are getting away with it unsigned, why not HTC?

Quote:
Wrong again, lol. Yes, there are older gen devices that were never able to have custom ROMs, but there are newer devices that still can't have them (Motorola Bravo).
As I said its a supply and demand thing..there is not a big enough demand/community to support those devices at the technical level it requires...

Quote:
Wrong again, lol. TRhe Thunderbolt was rooted before it was even released. See this, dated 3-18-2011, with instructions on how to do it (the device started shipping 3-17-11):
[Exclusive] How To Root The HTC Thunderbolt – Instructions By Team AndIRC (V1.02 2011/03/18) | Android News, Reviews, Apps, Games, Phones, Tablets, Tips, Mods, Videos, Tutorials - Android Police
Release date info:
HTC Thunderbolt Release Date Here - Verizon... | Gather
um..not your just not reading what you wrote..you wrote that it was rooted before it was released and that it was reeased on 17th and rooted 18th..how is that before? also the release date was bumped up to 16th due to the ipad2 thing...aka many people got it on 16th...

Quote:
Lets revisit how this all got started... Someone said they would not preorder the device because they thought it might not get rooted. I said that was not anything that I'm worried about. You then said we should be worried about it. It appears that you now concede the device will be rooted, either before it is released or in very short order after it is released.
I never said it wont be rooted..I just said there is no guarantee that it will be rooted so fast due to HTC's trend of increasing the security...and as stated it took 1 month for G2 to get perma root...originally the user wanted to wait a bit after rooting which I agreed with as there is no guarantee on how long it would take for "perma root"

BlackDynamite 04-30-2011 05:48 PM
Re: Evo 4g/Evo 3D
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by gTen (Post 2094453)
Because those devices were not popular...popularity plays a huge roll in the speed the community releases stuff..the devices in question could be rooted if there was a demand for it..aka if next Droid X had it, it would be rooted.
To my knowledge, nobody has found a crack for the efuse.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gTen (Post 2094453)
There was a wait on custom roms for the g2..it too a month for them to get perma root and break the emmc.
The G2 was rooted before it was even released. It was the same temporary root the Evo used, and basically every other HTC phone. It may very well have been a month before anyone made a custom ROM for it (I know Cyanogen was released a month later, don't know if anyone else made a ROM before that or not) but the device was rooted before it was even released, as pretty much all HTC phones are. Temp root that automatically starts and reroots as part of the boot process, or perma root that stays rooted, who cares. The bottom line is you have root access to your device either way and can run any of the root apps from the market.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gTen (Post 2094453)
To my knowledge HTC and Motorola are only ones..LG, Samsung, Asus, viewsonic are all unsigned...heck Sony even does unsigned bootloaders and is now offering a website that tells people how to unlock their bootloaders...
So what? What does it matter if HTC puts a locked bootloader if they release the key before the device is even released? You seem stuck on that for some reason but it's a non issue to me. And no matter how many times you say it, it will remain a non issue. Until HTC releases a device without a way to unlock the bootloader, then it's a non issue.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gTen (Post 2094453)
I am looking around and I can't find the feb 23rd.only feb 23 rom I found with new sense is still 2.2....as for march 7th..by then there was already 3 leaked gingerbread roms for i9000...
Yes, it was still froyo but it had the new HTC sense. I didn't realize you were turning it into a competition about which device had Gingerbread first. I was simply talking about leaked software to the community. if you want to talk about OS version updates, then lets compare when my Evo got froyo to when your Epic got it. I know you don't want to go there though. We can also talk about GPS issues with the galaxy S and how long it took to get that resolved. Now if we go back to my original point, that HTC is good to the hacking community, then the fact that there was an Evo ROM running the latest version of Sense back in February is pretty dang impressive. And if we're only talking about Gingerbread, I see a CM7 download for the Evo dated 2-16-11. When was the first Epic Gingerbread ROM? Cyanogen doesn't even support the Galaxy S.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gTen (Post 2094453)
IF you call locking you up in jail then giving you a key friendly be my guest :/...if other manufacturers are getting away with it unsigned, why not HTC?
It's nothing like being locked up in jail. Being locked up in jail would be more like waiting for Samsung to issue the Epic Froyo update, or fix that broken GPS. HTC releasing the signed image to get around it before the device even being released is fine with me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gTen (Post 2094453)
As I said its a supply and demand thing..there is not a big enough demand/community to support those devices at the technical level it requires...
I agree. But then why did you bring it up? Do you think there won't be a lot of interest in the new Evo or something? I mean, you were the one saying we should be concerned that the new Evo won't be rooted, even though just about every HTC device gets rooted before it's even released.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gTen (Post 2094453)
um..not your just not reading what you wrote..you wrote that it was rooted before it was released and that it was reeased on 17th and rooted 18th..how is that before? also the release date was bumped up to 16th due to the ipad2 thing...aka many people got it on 16th...
Uh, no. It started shipping that date (preorders). Nobody had one yet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gTen (Post 2094453)
I never said it wont be rooted..I just said there is no guarantee that it will be rooted so fast due to HTC's trend of increasing the security...and as stated it took 1 month for G2 to get perma root...originally the user wanted to wait a bit after rooting which I agreed with as there is no guarantee on how long it would take for "perma root"
HTC's security is not increased, lol. If you do the research, you will find that the G2 was rooted before it was even released, using the same method that worked on almost every other HTC phone. It's a total non issue.

Care to make a wager on it? I bet you the Evo 3D is rooted within a week of launch (likely before it even launches, but I'll say with a week after launch to be safe). Care to bet on it?

I will say again, this all started when someone else said they weren't going to preorder the Evo 3D out of concern that it wouldn't be rooted, I said it was a non issue, and you said it was something we should be concerned about. So that guy IS betting that it won't be rooted. He will likely miss out on the original shipment (remember how long the Evo stayed sold out). That is his wager. I'm just trying to help the guy out by letting him know the real deal- it is pretty much guaranteed to be rooted within a week after release, and probably before it is even released. And from the sounds of it, you actually agree that it is likely to be rooted by then, but continue to argue because you don't like HTC for some reason.

gTen 04-30-2011 07:07 PM
Re: Evo 4g/Evo 3D
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackDynamite (Post 2094517)
To my knowledge, nobody has found a crack for the efuse.
its a matter of time till someone finds one..wait till oen shows up in a major device..then we will see..

Quote:
The G2 was rooted before it was even released. It was the same temporary root the Evo used, and basically every other HTC phone. It may very well have been a month before anyone made a custom ROM for it (I know Cyanogen was released a month later, don't know if anyone else made a ROM before that or not) but the device was rooted before it was even released, as pretty much all HTC phones are. Temp root that automatically starts and reroots as part of the boot process, or perma root that stays rooted, who cares. The bottom line is you have root access to your device either way and can run any of the root apps from the market.
I dont think the G2 was able to reroot itself on boot..

Quote:
So what? What does it matter if HTC puts a locked bootloader if they release the key before the device is even released? You seem stuck on that for some reason but it's a non issue to me. And no matter how many times you say it, it will remain a non issue. Until HTC releases a device without a way to unlock the bootloader, then it's a non issue.
Because they change bootloaders in the middle and cause everyone to brick? I mean why do it in the first place? and locked bootloader and signed is a different thing..I am talking about signed here..

Quote:
Yes, it was still froyo but it had the new HTC sense. I didn't realize you were turning it into a competition about which device had Gingerbread first. I was simply talking about leaked software to the community. if you want to talk about OS version updates, then lets compare when my Evo got froyo to when your Epic got it.
I was not..you played the time card first so I reiterated..its obviosu galaxy s would get ginger first and evo would get froyo first..due to who made which Nexus device.

Quote:
I know you don't want to go there though. We can also talk about GPS issues with the galaxy S and how long it took to get that resolved.
Every phone has its issues..Galaxy S still has issues and Evo still has issues..its nothing new...

Quote:
Now if we go back to my original point, that HTC is good to the hacking community, then the fact that there was an Evo ROM running the latest version of Sense back in February is pretty dang impressive.
umm...why? didnt they port a Desire Z rom with it?

Quote:
And if we're only talking about Gingerbread, I see a CM7 download for the Evo dated 2-16-11. When was the first Epic Gingerbread ROM? Cyanogen doesn't even support the Galaxy S.
Again as I said it boils down to the community..right now we are up to Alpha 4 so until it reaches stable it wont be official..but the community is growing at a rapid rate. Either way this isnt about any device in specific..we are talking about manufacturers are we not?

Quote:
It's nothing like being locked up in jail. Being locked up in jail would be more like waiting for Samsung to issue the Epic Froyo update, or fix that broken GPS. HTC releasing the signed image to get around it before the device even being released is fine with me.
I find it alarming in itself that if for whatever reason a leak is not released would spell trouble..the reliance on HTC releasing it is pretty big that if 1 day they chose not to release it youd be screwed...

Quote:
I agree. But then why did you bring it up? Do you think there won't be a lot of interest in the new Evo or something? I mean, you were the one saying we should be concerned that the new Evo won't be rooted, even though just about every HTC device gets rooted before it's even released.
I am saying there is a possibility for it to take longer to root...

Quote:
Uh, no. It started shipping that date (preorders). Nobody had one yet.
People were able to get their hands on it earlier then that..aka 16th and either way, last I checked 17th comes before 18th...you said it was rooted before it came out...which was not the case...

Quote:
HTC's security is not increased, lol. If you do the research, you will find that the G2 was rooted before it was even released, using the same method that worked on almost every other HTC phone. It's a total non issue.
as stated before..they had to manually redo the root if they reset their phones...

Quote:
Care to make a wager on it? I bet you the Evo 3D is rooted within a week of launch (likely before it even launches, but I'll say with a week after launch to be safe). Care to bet on it?

I will say again, this all started when someone else said they weren't going to preorder the Evo 3D out of concern that it wouldn't be rooted, I said it was a non issue, and you said it was something we should be concerned about. So that guy IS betting that it won't be rooted. He will likely miss out on the original shipment (remember how long the Evo stayed sold out). That is his wager. I'm just trying to help the guy out by letting him know the real deal- it is pretty much guaranteed to be rooted within a week after release, and probably before it is even released. And from the sounds of it, you actually agree that it is likely to be rooted by then, but continue to argue because you don't like HTC for some reason.
Oh I am not disagreeing with you there is a risk of it being sold out, but thats not what was mentioned before..that risk exists and one I actually forgotten about..either way I was referring to rooting only...

Since the debate dragged on I'd like to reiterate what exactly I am disagreeing with and what I am agreeing with.

I agree that:
-It will be rooted eventually

-Delaying purchase may cause availability issues

I disagree that:
-HTC is in fact getting harder by the device...this has been a growing trend for already over 5 years..Apache was completely open, Mogul had to be hardSPL, Touch pro and touch pro2 were worse and it kept getting harder and harder..at what point it will go over the edge is unknown to me, it may be on Evo 3d it may be the device 5 years later..or maybe theyll change their mind and take a step back..but the evidence is there in trend.

-I disagree with your statement that HTC is the most developer friendly..it has nothing to do with hating or liking HTC...The other manufacturers offer the same amount of support as HTC does and some even better support then HTC does..your bases for HTC being the most developer friendly is based on them releasing software which 90% of the other manufacturers already do and more...If anything I would like if people view the playing field more fairly towards all manufacturers..I am not asking you to think HTC is the worst or the best but look at the current reality of things. For one, there is no way I would call any manufacturer developer friendly if they dont follow the GPL...

shane6374 04-30-2011 08:18 PM
Re: Evo 4g/Evo 3D
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by gTen (Post 2094540)
I dont think the G2 was able to reroot itself on boot..
Actually BlackDynamite is correct on this one. Visionary + temp root can be set to reroot the phone on each boot. In fact it is by far the easiest way to root the phone. The perm root method on that phone is a pain in the a$$, and I wish I wouldn't have done it. It's even harder to reverse.

gTen 04-30-2011 08:37 PM
Re: Evo 4g/Evo 3D
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by shane6374 (Post 2094556)
Actually BlackDynamite is correct on this one. Visionary + temp root can be set to reroot the phone on each boot. In fact it is by far the easiest way to root the phone. The perm root method on that phone is a pain in the a$$, and I wish I wouldn't have done it. It's even harder to reverse.
I was looking at old articles and that one said It had to be applied manually every time..tried to Google for auto reroot in different ways and didnt see anything...

After googling for the name you provided I found that it does in fact exist. and came out 4 days after release..so I concede on that statement then.

shane6374 04-30-2011 08:58 PM
Re: Evo 4g/Evo 3D
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by gTen (Post 2094569)
I was looking at old articles and that one said It had to be applied manually every time..tried to Google for auto reroot in different ways and didnt see anything...

After googling for the name you provided I found that it does in fact exist. and came out 4 days after release..so I concede on that statement then.
I'm with you on all of your other points. I've also enjoyed reading the debate the two of you are having.

I'm not sure on the difference on locking the devices between WinMo and android, but I can say this for sure. I've put different roms on 6 different phones (Vogue, TP2, HD2, Evo, Epic, and G2). By far the easiest was the Epic. The Evo and G2 were by far the most difficult.

What I am considering when I say that is starting at Rooting or installing the hspl though successfully booting up the new rom.

BlackDynamite 05-02-2011 02:21 AM
Re: Evo 4g/Evo 3D
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by shane6374 (Post 2094556)
Actually BlackDynamite is correct on this one. Visionary + temp root can be set to reroot the phone on each boot.
Yep, exactly the same as the Evo when it was first released. Heck, it might still be an option on the Evo for all I know (I did the permanent root after having the temp root for a while).

That is what I've been trying to tell him, this is nothing new. He seems to think the devices are getting harder and harder to root. They're not. The technique has been the same on basically all of the devices he mentioned, and on my Evo.

shane6374 05-02-2011 02:17 PM
Re: Evo 4g/Evo 3D
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackDynamite (Post 2095350)
Yep, exactly the same as the Evo when it was first released. Heck, it might still be an option on the Evo for all I know (I did the permanent root after having the temp root for a while).

That is what I've been trying to tell him, this is nothing new. He seems to think the devices are getting harder and harder to root. They're not. The technique has been the same on basically all of the devices he mentioned, and on my Evo.
Honestly, the only 2 HTC Anroid phones I've perm rooted are the Evo and G2. The only thing I remember is that they were both a pain in the a$$. Much unlike the one click perm root we have on the Galaxy S phones.

What about the Thunderbolt? Is that the same method as the G2 and Evo?

We will just have to wait and see on the Evo 3D. It won't be much longer now. One of you will be proved right.

BlackDynamite 05-03-2011 01:59 AM
Re: Evo 4g/Evo 3D
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by shane6374 (Post 2095563)
Honestly, the only 2 HTC Anroid phones I've perm rooted are the Evo and G2. The only thing I remember is that they were both a pain in the a$$. Much unlike the one click perm root we have on the Galaxy S phones.

What about the Thunderbolt? Is that the same method as the G2 and Evo?

We will just have to wait and see on the Evo 3D. It won't be much longer now. One of you will be proved right.
Yep, the Thunderbolt is the same. I'm sure Evo 3D will be the same too.

BlackDynamite 05-03-2011 12:28 PM
Re: Evo 4g/Evo 3D
 
So the Evo 3D ROM leaked. It's a guarantee it will be rooted early on now.
HTC Kingdom ROM leaks out, is clearly the Sprint EVO 3D | Android Central

BlackDynamite 05-10-2011 10:46 PM
Re: Evo 4g/Evo 3D
 
I found this post on another forum that spells out perfectly the HTC bootloader situation:

No need to panic about 'locked' bootloader - Android Forums

Quote:
Originally Posted by novox77 (Post 2646480)
This thread applies to all existing HTC phones as of the date of this post.

Ever since mid-March, several sources online started to incite fear by reporting that someone discovered that the HTC Thunderbolt's bootloader was locked. Why would that be scary? Because we've all heard that Motorola's bootloaders are locked down, which severely limits how much you can do with a rooted phone, like flash custom ROMs. And Motorola has stated that it intends to do the same for all its future phones. Since the Thunderbolt's booloader is locked and signed, does this mean HTC is now headed down the same path?

No.

The first thing to understand is that the initial fear mongering was due to a huge lack of understanding about the nature of bootloaders. I'm going to explain it here in a clean thread and hope to counter all this misplaced concern for anyone looking for clarification.

What the authors of these reports failed to realize was that almost ALL phones' bootloaders come locked and signed. Always have. The Thunderbolt's bootloader security is no different than any of its HTC predecessors including the Droid Incredible, Evo 4G, and many others. They simply confused a "locked" bootloader to Motorola's bootloaders, which are also locked, but the key difference is the encryption layer that prevents the Moto bootloaders from being unlocked. There's a huge difference between being locked and being unlockable.

In a full root, one of the main objectives is to unlock the bootloader so you can flash custom ROMs. Here is a high-level overview of what happens during a full root:

1) find an exploit that tricks the phone in giving you temporary root privileges for that session. Typically some app has a vulnerability, and a root solution is available when a hacker finds an exploit.

2) Once a hacker has temp root, the superuser (su) binary is installed onto the system to make the root permanent. A user or app can simply call su to gain root privileges at will.

At this point, we've achieved a half-root. The phone is technically considered "root"ed. Now we move on to the juicy part of the root process: unlocking the bootloader.

3) The bootloader's stock firmware (HBOOT) can now be replaced with the pre-release Engineering version, which is a leaked HTC-signed image used when the phone firmware and OS was being developed. Since the image is properly signed, the bootloader accepts the firmware. The Engineering HBOOT comes with S-OFF, meaning it's unlocked by default (it makes sense that when the ROM is being developed, engineers wouldn't want to impose the lock on themselves). Once the bootloader is on the Engineering HBOOT, it is unlocked.

4) Now that the bootloader is unlocked (aka S-OFF, NAND unlocked), the factory recovery program is able to be replaced using the bootloader's fastboot flashing utility. Depending on the root method, you get either Clockworkmod or RA recovery, two widely available homebrew recovery programs.

5) with a custom recovery in place, you have the ability to flash images to various partitions that were previously protected by the bootloader, but now that the bootloader is unlocked, it essentially turns a blind eye to what the recovery image does.

Full root complete.


When the bootloader is encrypted, it means that it's expecting an HBOOT image to be encrypted with a very specific key. The problem is you can't generate the correct encryption on an Engineering HBOOT image without having the encryption key. So... no Eng HBOOT means S-ON remains (aka NAND locked, aka bootloader remains locked). Which means you can't ever have write access to key partitions of the filesystem that a custom kernel/ROM requires: /boot (kernel) and /system (Android OS). Furthermore, with Motorola bootloaders, there's something called an eFuse that checks to see if you've modified the bootloader. Assuming you do get the Eng HBOOT flashed, the eFuse may still kick in because of some checksum mismatch. Its job is to brick the phone when it detects that the bootloader has been tampered with. Ouch.

So will the Evo 3D come with a locked and signed bootloader? Most likely. But does that mean anything of consequence? No. The Engineering HBOOT will be inevitably leaked, a hacker will discover a root exploit, and the Evo 3D will be fully rooted shortly after.

Is there a possibility that HTC starts encrypting their bootloaders like Motorola? Yes. But the Thunderbolt's bootloader is not a valid reason to think that HTC is considering this. In fact, HTC has done nothing to indicate it may suddenly decide to change its existing policies. So relax. Chances are very good that the Evo 3D will be rooted quickly with little fanfare.

Hopefully word of this thread gets around and can clear up all the FUD surrounding this issue.

BlackDynamite 06-03-2011 03:20 PM
So gTen, what say you now? lol

HTC has officially stated they won't be locking bootloaders, and the started the htcdev program, which will basically allow Sense to be modded in every way possible.

Is there any doubt who the best manufacturer is for the community now?

gTen 06-03-2011 04:36 PM
Re: Evo 4g/Evo 3D
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackDynamite (Post 2110797)
So gTen, what say you now? lol
Thats cheating and you know it >.>....it would have been locked originally..but we will see how they handle it...I heard mixed reports of some saying while the boot loader wont be locked other things might be..

Either way its a step forward..

Quote:
HTC has officially stated they won't be locking bootloaders, and the started the htcdev program, which will basically allow Sense to be modded in every way possible.
So HTC finally caught up with the other manufacturers?!?!

Cause you know..Samsung did that in 2009 :/..LG has one as well I think..

Samsung Offers TouchWiz SDK To Devs -- InformationWeek

Quote:
Is there any doubt who the best manufacturer is for the community now?


But yes..clearly HTC is the best for finally doing what others did 2 years ago...;)

Don't get me wrong I'm not taking shots at HTC..but in no way is HTC "the best"..its on par with others at best..

orangekid 06-03-2011 06:21 PM
Re: Evo 4g/Evo 3D
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by gTen (Post 2110847)

Cause you know..Samsung did that in 2009 :/..LG has one as well I think..
I didn't know Samsung had anything to do with Sense...


The point is no one cares about Touchwiz like they do about Sense, this is a huge deal. Samsung may make some awesome hardware, but they need to leave the coding to the grown men who know what they're doing.

gTen 06-03-2011 07:56 PM
Re: Evo 4g/Evo 3D
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by orangekid (Post 2110937)
I didn't know Samsung had anything to do with Sense...


The point is no one cares about Touchwiz like they do about Sense, this is a huge deal. Samsung may make some awesome hardware, but they need to leave the coding to the grown men who know what they're doing.
Apparently you haven't seen Touchwiz 4.0...

And that irrelevant to the debate on preference...I personally like TW more then Sense..simply because sense looks ugly..but the new sense looks decent...

The point is that Samsung had an SDK to their UI already and so did LG and I'm sure a lot of other manufacturers..hence just because HTC revealed that feature 2 years behind the other guys does not make them more "developer friendly" then the other guys..

BlackDynamite 06-04-2011 04:09 AM
Re: Evo 4g/Evo 3D
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by gTen (Post 2110847)
Thats cheating and you know it >.>....it would have been locked originally..but we will see how they handle it...I heard mixed reports of some saying while the boot loader wont be locked other things might be..

Either way its a step forward..
I don't think it would have been locked. I think the necessary hboot would have "leaked" like it always has.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gTen (Post 2110847)
So HTC finally caught up with the other manufacturers?!?!

Cause you know..Samsung did that in 2009 :/..LG has one as well I think..

Samsung Offers TouchWiz SDK To Devs -- InformationWeek
Not sure if you really don't know what you're talking about or if you are intentionally misrepresenting the facts here. In any case, HTC did a lot more than allow widgets to be created for Sense. People have been creating widgets for sense for years. That is nothing new. HTC is basically partnering with the dev community.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gTen (Post 2110847)
But yes..clearly HTC is the best for finally doing what others did 2 years ago...;)

Don't get me wrong I'm not taking shots at HTC..but in no way is HTC "the best"..its on par with others at best..
So show me Samsung's equivalent of this:
HTCdev - Development Center

If Samsung did this 2 years ago, it should be pretty easy to find...


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