Re: How Microsoft blew it with Windows Mobile
 

so whats the problem again?

Re: How Microsoft blew it with Windows Mobile
 

No u cant. I believe what he meant was that unlike other OS's windows mobile is the most unstable and slow out the bunch. To be finger friendly/fast and/or stable windows has to be tweaked and/or skinned. You dont see a blackberry,iphone or either of the two webos devices being shipped with a different UI skin. The only reason android is skinned is to make it prettier but its pretty fast/stable and user friendly when shipped stock as well. Unlike the others windows mobile imho needs to be skinned or its basically crap. It isnt really user-friendly out the box like the others. We need sites like ppcgeeks/xda to help stabilize/tweak windows because microsoft is too slow/lazy to do it themselves.

Re: How Microsoft blew it with Windows Mobile
 

Good point. TouchFlo3D is HTC's attempt to cover up Windows Mobile (Today screen). They HAD to do that because Windows mobile by itself is just embarassing.

Re: How Microsoft blew it with Windows Mobile
 

Interesting article, and unfortunately, it's fairly true. I love WM (have for the last 4+ years), and would never switch to the iPhone, simply because I really feel our PPC's are so much more capable. However, it does bug me (and I think this is an important point made in that article), when you see company's advertise apps for the iPhone.

I go into Chipotle, and they have an iPhone ordering app (no love for WM). Sppedtest.net - app for iPhone (no love for WM). They made a good point saying an iPhone app works across the board, whereas creating an app for WM, there are far too many variants. Touch screen version, non touch screen version, qvga, vga, wvga, qwvga... ever try to play rat splat on a Treo? the bottom gets cut off. Ever try to play VGA on the TP2? you get black bars.

As "simple" as the iPhone is, that's it's main feature. It's simple and just works. Mainstream doesn't do complicated. No cab files to deal with, regedits, WVGA fixes, app porting... But I guess that's also why we love our phones, because it is more capable, more functional. We can handle "complicated". I just wish it was more convenient for developers to make apps for our phones.

My $0.02 :)

Re: How Microsoft blew it with Windows Mobile
 

apple released its first attempt at a pda less than 2 years after microsoft (who was the second or third guest to the party btw) and had to ditch it completely in 1998(6 years later). less than 10 years before it released its iphone, making the iphoneOS its second attempt. One of the biggest reasons was their failure to provide a sufficient handwriting recognition program (failure to innovate? MS had one). MS has already pushed Apple out of the mobile world once. But honestly call it for what it REALLY is: MS may have lost sight but Apple spent 9 years planning their return.

Re: How Microsoft blew it with Windows Mobile
 

Yup the good ol' Newton was a bust but you can't be serious about MS pushing Apple out of the mobile world once. MS didn't push them out, it was simply not a good product.
Yeah it took 9 years, but then again what did Microsoft do during those 9 years? That's really what this thread is about... Microsoft has been in the mobile OS business the LONGEST and yet look where they are now.

Re: How Microsoft blew it with Windows Mobile
 

I don't necessarily think ms blew it in the OS department
I think they blew it in the marketing dept
the droid phone is the worse POS I have ever used and yet it is a popular phone why? Because of marketing.
microsoft needs to market the phone plain and simple

Re: How Microsoft blew it with Windows Mobile
 

Yeah, that could be true too. I still contend that the OS really has not changed much in the last 9 years. (remember TouchFlo3D is not from Microsoft)
Whether it is marketing or the OS, I still think MS dropped the ball somewhere along the line.

But I guess on the bright side, they are still Microsoft so they do have the muscle and $$ to get back some market share. But Winmo 7 needs to be a winner and it needs to be marketed well.

Re: How Microsoft blew it with Windows Mobile
 

The newton was around for 6 years and saw several different iterations. in the end though it was their inability to innovate and provide the consumer with the experience they longed for that forced them out of the market. oh how easy it must be to watch your competitor do all your work for you while u spend 9 years plotting your return. Just imagine what the iphone would have looked like had it not been for all of the unhappy winmo users complaining about finger this swipe that. There is no excuse for MS being so far behind in the game after the iphone showed them what the users really want (a ball and chain with a much less than impressive UI). I think part of the reason behind this is MS has always made software to run on someone elses hardware, thus providing a UI that is easily overlayed and not missed thereafter. But thats not what the users (aside from me) wants so shame on them.

The newton thing is mainly just to address all those who think apple got it right they're first time out and cant possibly make mistakes.

Re: How Microsoft blew it with Windows Mobile
 

I agree. They need to stop being polite and come out swinging when winmo7 comes out. its a little ridiculous that you dont hear a MS commercial say "This is why im better than APPLE."

Re: How Microsoft blew it with Windows Mobile
 

You have to give Verizon/Motorola credit.... that's exactly what they did with the Droid. Now of course it remains to be seen if they even make a dent in the iphone armor but it certainly gained alot of attention and publicity.

Ironically, the real loser in the Droid vs. iphone commercials is ATT not Apple. ATT suing Verizon has got to be the biggest bonehead moves in recent memory.

Re: How Microsoft blew it with Windows Mobile
 

Agreed, but that's just to save face. AT&T knows they don't have a leg to stand on in the lawsuit. It's just for show. If people hear AT&T is suing over Verizons claims, then people think, oh, it must not be true. Then magically, the whole disappears over time, and it's forgotten about. Like Jack in the Box vs. McDonalds. Remember all those direct bashing ads against McDonalds? Jack challenged them, and had a commercial counting the days until they called. Then bam! it was all over and forgotten about.

Re: How Microsoft blew it with Windows Mobile
 

ATT just announced today they dropped their lawsuit against Verizon... lol!

Re: How Microsoft blew it with Windows Mobile
 

Haha, the show's over!

Re: How Microsoft blew it with Windows Mobile
 

I think i read an article today that said tmobile would be carrying either the 3gs or the new iteration of the iphone thats supposed to come out this summer, supposedly around the time that the exclusive deal with att is going to end.

Re: How Microsoft blew it with Windows Mobile
 

I have programmed some games for windows mobile and i be truthfull . Iphone has better programming tools for its product. Microsofts tools are so hardd to understand and use developers go to Iphone tools which are more user friendly to make killer apps. Thats the answer plain and simply.

Re: How Microsoft blew it with Windows Mobile
 

Winmo's main problem is that MS has always marketed it to business users. They need to appeal to people like us & the millions of others that have no idea what a powerhouse WM is. I think more people would buy WM phones if they had any idea just how much cool stuff they can do with them. People just see word, outlook integration, & spreadsheets & think its just some boring business tool. They're starting to get the idea though, the WM page on microsoft.com has a theme builder now, with links for ringtones & games & whatnot. They just need to get more aggressive.

And I agree that MS needs to grow a sack & start pwning Apple with their ads. List reasons why WM is more powerful than Apple, just stick it to 'em. Let Apple sue, what are they gonna sue for, getting a taste of their own medicine?

Re: How Microsoft blew it with Windows Mobile
 

+10000....great post!

if it were up to me id be using android or webos, far more superior operating systems with a beautiful UI. i think wm7 is just all hyped up bs and won't be all it's cracked up to be. don't even get me started on 6.5, the UI is horrid. takes me hours to customize my phone to my liking.

Re: How Microsoft blew it with Windows Mobile
 

when you can find other o/s in devices like this then your argument sticks.
the fact is the only reason we have what we have now is due to business's buying winmobile for years. the first thing bb did was focus on enterprise server/software to tie into existing business networks, namely Microsoft. and since they had the first/best all-in-one phone busness's were willing to buy that extra equipment and licenses.

this whole argument about the ui is just that. the other o/s's were specifically designed with the u/i in mind. winmo has the architecture designed for corporate environments. I also believe this gets to the core of why were waiting for wm7. I suspect it's a completely different platform, hopefully making customization and programming easier.

Re: How Microsoft blew it with Windows Mobile
 

Wont really matter what WM does now... iphone has already won that war and droid is bringing up the rear.

Re: How Microsoft blew it with Windows Mobile
 

Sad but true. I just got my new TP2 but I have a feeling this might be my last upgrade. Not that I don't want to continue, but we might not have much of a choice. There might not be many compelling Winmo phones in the near future.

HTC seems to really have a real beef with the Microsoft with the slow development of Winmo OS and it really shows in their future lineups. I don't think that trend is going to reverse anytime soon.

Re: How Microsoft blew it with Windows Mobile
 

Dude those products aren't running windows mobile, and if they are, its definitely not the same os in microsoft's mobile phone line.. They're running windows software built for the specific fields they're being used in. Your argument doesnt stick or make any sense. If you were to pay attention we're talking about the best mobile phone os and how microsoft's argument is their os is/was built for the "enterprise user." Lol who here has said apple has the best forklift os or that rim has the better bar-code scanner software. Fact is your statement speaks on two completely different subjects. We're talking specifically about mobile phone OS' not just how pretty they are. Take into account the usability and speed of the os not just how powerful or pretty(ui) it is.

Re: How Microsoft blew it with Windows Mobile
 

No.. I don't think that is their main problem.
If they indeed always marketed WinMo to business users, they certainly didn't do a good job.

That's just a cop out saying that Winmo is for business users... But if you insist on using that excuse, then BlackBerrys kicked their behind in the business world.

Re: How Microsoft blew it with Windows Mobile
 

lol...its the same os running on those devices as your phone. same os. maybe they havent taken the time to update .net cf or those are running an extremely outdated version of winmo but yeah, its no different from winmo 5 or 6 running on a phone. I've written a texting program on a windows 5 gps device with no cellular functions and used a point of sale device at my work running 6.0...btw ms doesnt have a mobile phone line. they have an os.

Their problem is they didn't market at all. but they did in fact produce a nearly exclusively enterprise OS. even if they didnt market it well at all. (which is why RIM stepped in)

Re: How Microsoft blew it with Windows Mobile
 

What do you mean HTC future lineup? Do you have some info on their future lineup? Or are you just going off of that leaked T-Mobile presentation for the first half of 2010 (before WM 7 is set to launch)?

You want to know how HTC feels about Windows Mobile, just ask yourself why Windows Mobile devices get all the new hardware before the Android devices...

Re: How Microsoft blew it with Windows Mobile
 

As i clearly stated..If it was running windows its not the same as in mobile phones.. Hence the name of the os being windows MOBILE. Those products that you're speaking of are running windows ce if anything. Windows mobile cannot be outdated it if was developed and optimized for the use of replacing a pda and to become an all in one device. So that you wont need a computer to do all of your computing needs. Windows ce was developed and designed to be used as a sort of pc companion to someone's or a companies business. It works with your computer meaning it extends its capabilities. Better yet just follow the link and when you're done can we continue talking about windows mobile and not ce or any variation not being ran on cell phones...not pda's please stop feeding me all these other uses for windows because if they were all the same we would be talking about one version and not have windows mobile/phone/7/ce/nt. If they were the same everything would be running just windows ok? Different technology,different software and different hardware.http://support.microsoft.com/kb/158182

Re: How Microsoft blew it with Windows Mobile
 

those are the products ur talking about right? just for fun heres the website of a company that sells these types of products all over the world with "Windows Mobile" (the MOBILE PHONE os as you so elegantly put it) right on the front page.

http://www.mobile.datalogic.com/Prod...d_pd274_7.html

please try to be more polite. I understand you without all caps.

Re: How Microsoft blew it with Windows Mobile
 

lmao, really? You have a very "unique" perspective.
Speaking of unique perspectives, here's another one :D.

I loved my WM phone, but I got tired of defending it. They were really the first ones in the mobile OS game and when they didnt have any competition I was amazed at what you could do with WM on such a small portable device. WM was King, so the king sat back in his throne and relaxed and enjoyed being the most powerful. Meanwhile there were rebellions forming. Growing stronger everyday and eager for a chance to dethrone the king, who sat comfortably in his throne, growing fat and lazy and complacent. Content with the "status quo" the king continued to do nothing to improve his kingdom until he noticed one day that he had few followers left :shock:. His kingdom had suddenly been split up amongst 4 new rulers who were competing furiously to control all the lands. There was the Monarch who controlled all those under him with an iron fist and did not allow his followers to think for themselves, The Compassionate leader who allowed his followers to act and do as they wished and even allowed them access to his very own DNA, the Mail carrier faction whom specialized in delivering messages, and the ADD faction who touted the ability to switch quickly from task to task (but not do any of them well) :p. The king quickly realized the folly of his ways. He quickly jumped into action and began to make changes to his kingdom in an effort to win back his lost followers, but to his dismay he was already too far behind. Even with the new improvements to his kingdom he was still far behind the other civilizations. I tell this story now from Android land, looking back at the land I once called home. My old home (WM Land) is now a ghetto, populated by the few that either can not leave because of a contract with their king, or have too strong of a sentimental attachment to their homes to realize that they are now in the ghetto.:spam2:

Before anyone else says it, I'll go ahead and do it.......WTF?:scratch:

Re: How Microsoft blew it with Windows Mobile
 

Actually, smoove21, those ARE running Windows Mobile. Most of them Windows Mobile 2003, but some of them run 5 or even 6. The term Mobile does not mean phone at all. Its the same Windows Mobile running on an HTC phone that is running on a Dell Axim PDA or HP iPaq. Some of the software I run on my phone (such as mocha FTP, for example) was made for a PDA over WiFI, before PDA-Phone combos where widely available.

This is a bit off topic, but I think you are confused:
Windows CE is a modular operating system that was designed to be adapted for various uses, like solid state terminals, in-dash car entertainment consoles, GPS units, call center extensions, set-top TV boxes and even ended up on Sega's Dreamcast system.
The idea was that a hardware developer could take a standardized OS and throw modules together to easily suit their need. The default CE UI actually resembles Windows 95, with a cascading start menu on the bottom and task bar. (see here: http://www.bluewatersys.com/img/wiki...screenshot.png )

One of the divisions of the CE team wanted to compete with Palm's popular Pilot PDA, and when the HPCs didn't catch on (think pocket-sized clamshell laptop), they decided it was because no one wants to open up and use their PDA like a laptop on the go.
So, they created an alternative UI designed for portrait orientation displays, threw together some standardized modules for general PDA use, and called it Windows Mobile (actually, originally Pocket PC, but eventually the name was changed in 2003 for marketing the Windows brand).

Those devices are running the same Windows Mobile we are, although perhaps not as recent a version. Many enterprise portable computing devices such as Point-of-sale guns in Target stores or what stewards use to order and pay for drinks on JetBlue, run Windows Mobile. This is mostly instead of some version of CE because it already exists and is ready to go instead of adapting and developing a customized OS.

That is part of why WM will not really die, even if they lose relevance in the consumer market.

I have a few of those barcode scanners in my office, they used to use them for inventory. Some of the older black-and-white display ones run Windows CE with the old UI, and its kind of funny. In some ways, I wish they had kept that. Its really more like using a desktop, and seems more natural. The newer ones run Pocket PC 2003, one or two of them run WM5. I used to take the unused ones and load all my old crap on them... TCPMP, pocket DOOM, etc., just for kicks.

A coworker of mine who didn't want to carry around a large smartphone decided to actually adopt one as his PDA. Kind of silly I think, since its so big, but he wanted it not just for PIM, but also as a laptop replacement for terminal services and configuring routers though serial cables.

Just setting the record straight, here. WM *is* used for more than consumer devices. CE is a whole 'nother story...

Re: How Microsoft blew it with Windows Mobile
 

your right, I'm referring to PocketPc's. I have been aware of this difference developing for some time (PocketPc w/phone vs. phone that does 'everything'.)
as far as usability and speed go, that's completely subjective. consumers wants are different than enterprise needs, and the consumer market only recently started demanding more. before that it was purely a commercial driven device.

this is why the shift from winmo to m$phone. there will still be specialized devices like I linked before, but they will now be under the "embedded" category. (i think)

Re: How Microsoft blew it with Windows Mobile
 

I see people saying android this ,iphone that, besides speed what major advantage do they have over windows mobile. Windows mobile has way more applications and modifications for it than they do. The only thing with windows mobile is you have to search to find it. The onlt problem windows mobile has is they made too many phones to many resolutions and its driving developers like me crazy. Windows mobile should settle on 1 phone to represent thier brand then all developers will flood back to it. Thats the only problem i have with it , besides that long live the king.

Re: How Microsoft blew it with Windows Mobile
 

I understand and respect your point of view. I just feel that speaking on the potential or power of windows is getting old. Its hard to support microsoft when they keep feeding us the half-assed attempts of revamping their mobile os. Now its been said that windows mobile/phone 7 will be pushed back to Q4 of next year. On top of that, a european release is supposed to be first (i think?). Even still, that more than likely means we wont start seeing phones being shipped here with the new os until early 2011. Im aware that there will be some leaks of the os that we all will be running well before that time but come on, we have to wait at least another year for its official release? This is ludacris, please tell me that we arent going to accept this with no complaints what so ever.

Re: How Microsoft blew it with Windows Mobile
 

Look at the windows mobile users in this world. They have many users who will never leave, lots being members here and customers of mine. Hopefully this will help them stay strong. :) Positive thoughts people ;)

Re: How Microsoft blew it with Windows Mobile
 

and I yours. I admit the iphone was a revolution, which forces evolution. its just that evolution takes a little longer.. :)
http://chebelladesign.com/_Media/evolution_to_pc-2.jpg
And I still say wm's power is fine, it's the developers that got old... lol :evil4:

Re: How Microsoft blew it with Windows Mobile
 

I dont think the game is over yet. Microsoft needs to dump a boatload of money into the development tools, branding of a whole new Microsoft Mobile OS, and not give up. They continuously release new builds as a "hey look what I can do" sort of thing, but the real market share is gonna be in "eye candy" and usability + speed. They need to appeal to the iphone "less technically savvy" people, just like android is trying and iPhone already has. Microsoft has the power, I just dont know what they're waiting for. They need to make the MS Mobile platform "cool". Even with WM7 coming, I still dont think it's gonna shake too many iphone users away. Part of the problem with games etc, is writing them and debugging them for the WM OS is so damn difficult and buggy, with all kinds of constraints all over the place. The development tools just are not there yet for powerful gaming apps. I'm a developer, I have tried to write for WM. Too much work. Apples C iphone SDK is so easy to use. But yet I cant write jack for Mac's. They need to just start allowing ATOM processors in our phones. Not just ARM instruction sets. That would really cripple apple's iphone. Or allow full x86 Windows OS's to be run on an ARM processor. Smaller versions of course.

Re: How Microsoft blew it with Windows Mobile
 

Atom CPU with a full x86 OS? Man that would be so awesome. One can only dream of the day (and we all know it has to be coming at some point)...

Re: How Microsoft blew it with Windows Mobile
 

I agree that MS has dropped the ball, but they were originally geared towards business. It was a small group of people with a high dispensable income that could afford theses devices for personal use. Yes BB has eaten a huge marketshare of the business market, but that is because businesses like the 'simpleness' and standardness of BB, a device that is software & hardware by the same manufacturer. Our IT dept won't allow anything other than BB for our exchange server becuase there is less control on their end.
The market really exploded for personal smartphones with the iphone (another software & hardware singularity) and changed the market. I don't really think anyone expected 4 years ago that smartphones would become as common as they are now. A large portion of people I know with iphones got them because it is easier to have your ipod and phone together, I think that the market isn't as big as the numbers show because of this. Why wouldn't they lose market share? New and shiny will always draw people away and between the iphone and Android getting so much 'heat' in the media, you have to expect some people to just jump for something different, I know if I had the money, and the right network, I'd have an Android phone as well.
I think WM also suffers because of the carriers. I live in Canada and I rarely see a commercial for any WM handsets. I see tons of BB/Android/iphone spots and they show all of the things that those phones do I yell at my TV "My phone does that too!" but for some reason, the carriers never seem to want to push those devices.
Sorry if I am all over the place, too many tangents, too little brain.

Re: How Microsoft blew it with Windows Mobile
 

well its still not over, Microsoft can do things right now that will save and propel their OS to a new level. Obviously they know how to make money and sell products, but I just hope they realize where the mobile phone industry is going and how fast it changes every day, I hope wm7 is a more liquid OS.

Re: How Microsoft blew it with Windows Mobile
 

The only problem is that Microsoft has pushed the release date of Windows Mobile 7 to very late 2010. That's a long time to wait for the next "big" release. In the meantime, they will have trouble holding onto customers.

Re: How Microsoft blew it with Windows Mobile
 

I would like to see WM7 too, don't get me wrong.. But I guess I just don't see what is so bad about WM 6.5. It's a huge upgrade over 6.1 as far as the interface goes.

If my Touch Pro 2 had a better camera and a flash, a 1 gig processor, half a gig of RAM, a front facing camera (with accessible API) and an FM transmitter, I would probably not be looking to upgrade for quite a while (well, a couple years anyway, lol).

WM7 will probably be good, but the hardware and advertising is what will make or break it in my opinion.