Dangers of downgrading after installing GPS radio (and a little on signing)
 

Ok there is a TON of confusion here, let my try to clear things up.

SPLs: (3 color screen which if you see this you are not bricked!)
0.40 will be overwritten by a flash if an nbh includes an SPL
2.31 will not be overwritten by an nbh (only via OS aka unlocker 0.40)

Radios:
1.xx radios/non-GPS work with 0.40 SPL only
3.xx radios/GPS work with 2.31 only

OS has to match the SPL/Radio as well, but less danger in that section just stuck in SPL

SPLs/Radios/OS are all device specific, do not just repackage nbh files with a vogue ID. There is a modelID embedded for a reason.

CID of radios is less important physically to your device, but you are still running a risk if your carrier does not offer the radio since your warranty will be voided.

Now to clarify my statements on reverting back after GPS:
Short answer: Don't do it!!!!

Details (nobody likes to listen to me saying not to, but here's why I say it):
The 1.xx radios are loaded with a normal nbh header and they can be overwritten by a different radio with no problems.

The 3.xx radios are loaded with a 785 nbh header which is only compatible with the 2.xx SPLs and at least some portions of the radio itself will not be overwritten when reflashed.

The radio actually is what loads the SPL so this is where the compatibility comes into play. When you have the new GPS radio and flash back to a non GPS radio the portion of the radio that loads the SPL does not get overwritten even though the version on the screen will revert to the 1.xx. This isn't always a huge deal when using the 2.xx SPL, because the loaders are compatible still (unless it actually did get overwritten). Once you go back from there to a stock SPL though you very well could get a brick in download mode.

This may not happen all the time there could be different circumstances etc, but i have bricked a few devices and this is what i've come up with.


PS: Also there seems to be confusion about what is actually a "signed" rom i might do a write up on that, but basically if it was dumped or customized (created with dutty or nbhgen) its not signed, if it was at one point on an HTC site as is than it's signed (the ones I call Carrier EXEs).

Re: Dangers of downgrading after installing GPS radio (and a little on signing)
 

Stickied. Thanks for the info ImCokeMan.

Re: Dangers of downgrading after installing GPS radio (and a little on signing)
 

Thanks in advance. I'm about to get a Touch, now that there's a kitchen and although I'm good to go on Apache ROMs the upgrade process on the Touch is so different I have literally been studying for months trying to learn in advance what I'll need to know.

Re: Dangers of downgrading after installing GPS radio (and a little on signing)
 

Thanks, I'm glad I read this today. I have a friend who's Touch I upgraded. But he's not a super-advanced user, and wants to revert back to the stock ROM. I was planning on doing it for him tomorrow, but now I won't. So there's no way to go back to the stock ROM then?

Re: Dangers of downgrading after installing GPS radio (and a little on signing)
 

any idea whether having the new radio will cause problems when the official sprint rom comes out? some people were thinking about reverting back to ensure compatibility with the official upgrade once it comes out.

Re: Dangers of downgrading after installing GPS radio (and a little on signing)
 

Reverting back will not make it any more compatible, that just puts you at risk one more time by flashing an extra radio.

I'm not saying its "impossible" to go back to stock (on surface), but it is risky and even if it appears to work there could be problems down the road. You will not see a write up by me for going back to stock that involves flashing a different radio after the device has a 3.xx a GPS one.

Re: Dangers of downgrading after installing GPS radio (and a little on signing)
 

The new sprint touch official rom will likely be based on a 3.xx radio, so hopefully nothing to worry about.

Re: Dangers of downgrading after installing GPS radio (and a little on signing)
 

thanks for the info mate... and i'm glad that i reverted back to the radio 1.xx and everything went fine using the old unlocker.. but won't do it again :D

Re: Dangers of downgrading after installing GPS radio (and a little on signing)
 

Thanks imcokeman, 2 questions for ya:

1) Why is installing the Titan GPS radio a bad idea, but its "ok" to install the Alltel radio? The Titan radio (3.35) is sprint's radio, so shouldnt that be more compatible with my Sprint Touch than the Alltell 3.37 radio (i currently have 3.37 on my Sprint Touch and am considering "downgrading" to 3.35 because of all of the rave reviews about the increase in GPS performance).

2) Is the 3.35 radio the Titan radio you say to avoid installing? Thank you.

Re: Dangers of downgrading after installing GPS radio (and a little on signing)
 

So those of us "upgrading" to the 3.xx/GPS radios are assuming and hoping that HTC/Sprint will follow with a release being 2.xx+ compatible atleast and /or a radio that "upgrades" or totally replaces our "hacked" 3.xx..

And if that is not the case, we will end up with units with "dirty" radio ROM area? Thus causing possible incompatibilities with official ROM releases and/or end up with bricks?

I am further wondering, if sprint techs will be able to detect this when and if we have to turn in a faulty unit for repair or exchange..

-CC

Re: Dangers of downgrading after installing GPS radio (and a little on signing)
 

The official release of the Sprint Touch GPS ROM will more than likely be a 3.xx radio. The titan's radio is a 3.35, so the touch should be in the same range, who knows maybe itll even be the 3.37 radio customized for sprint.

To answer your second question, yes the sprint tech's will almost certainly be able to detect this. Especially when they see that the bootloader screen says 2.31 ImCokeMan. Also the radio version can easily be detected in the EPST.ink menu.

Re: Dangers of downgrading after installing GPS radio (and a little on signing)
 

Ok, this is definitely not good... I have one that needs work, repair or exchange... The screen does not align correctly, even after a screen alignment it would crap out after a few minutes... Any suggestions as to what to do..? I currently have a GPS rom on it...

Thanks...

Re: Dangers of downgrading after installing GPS radio (and a little on signing)
 

Radios ARE device specific! I am speaking from a physical device level on all of this. Do not flash Titan radios on a Vogue! If i felt the phones were the same i'd make a model ID patch in the SPL as well, but they are different devices! As for the carrier, once you have your device as SuperCID which the unlocker simulates there is no physical limitation to using a radio from another carrier.

Now on the other hand the carriers do have customizations and they may not be set up correctly when using a new radio/rom, but that doesn't make the device more prone to unrecoverable device bricking which are the dangers i'm speaking of.

Re: Dangers of downgrading after installing GPS radio (and a little on signing)
 

Nice to have someone more "reputable" acknowledge/confirm this as I got tired of being treated like a n00b when I made that claim/statement!

Speaking of which, is the WiFi access in the Titan part of the radio, or is there a separate abstraction layer?

Re: Dangers of downgrading after installing GPS radio (and a little on signing)
 

I went from the Titan radio back to 3.37. I was having lots of issues making outgoing calls with 3.35.

Re: Dangers of downgrading after installing GPS radio (and a little on signing)
 

This reminds me, of not so long ago, our conversation about downgrading... where i remember saying you'd admit reluctantly that it's not "impossible" but highly not recommended. Even that being said, with some of the more recent threads that are around, i completely understand why you started this ;-)

Re: Dangers of downgrading after installing GPS radio (and a little on signing)
 

What steps did you take to go back to 3.37 from 3.35, if you don't mind. Thanks.

Re: Dangers of downgrading after installing GPS radio (and a little on signing)
 

While I did get the radio changed, I think I'll let someone else give the step-by-step directions on how to do it. My process involved having to flash the stock ROM via sd card to bring my Touch back from the dead. :D

Re: Dangers of downgrading after installing GPS radio (and a little on signing)
 

so does this mean as long as you stay on the touch radio, you'll be alright? I am asking this because this give me the impression that once I flash the radio, any radio, I won't be able to go back to stock at all given all stock roms at this moment are non-gps 1.xx versions.

And if in 6 months, those new gps-enabled roms are everywhere, there's really no need to go back to the 1.xx radios, this "problem" will not be any problem anymore, am I correct?

Re: Dangers of downgrading after installing GPS radio (and a little on signing)
 

I think you'll be fine. If it's not working already, whats the worst that can happen. You brick your phone and you use your insurance to get a new one. And if you don't have insurance, call in and get some today.

Re: Dangers of downgrading after installing GPS radio (and a little on signing)
 

me thinks imcokeman is head software engineer at htc... or sprint :p
or at least he should be.

Re: Dangers of downgrading after installing GPS radio (and a little on signing)
 

i'm exchaning my mogul for a touch, you're saying there is no good way to get it back to stock rom before I send it in? Pre custom rom upgrade, I had a Sprint GPS rom 3.35 I believe. It froze all the time and was garbate, the custom rom made it much better.

Re: Dangers of downgrading after installing GPS radio (and a little on signing)
 

Not to piss anyone off or anything, but, IMHO, when you start flashing custom ROMS, you pretty much accept the fact that you're not going to get warranty repair service.

Just buy a new lcd/touch panel and be done with it.

http://www.blackberry8100parts.com/N...en_p_3-62.html

Re: Dangers of downgrading after installing GPS radio (and a little on signing)
 

I'm trying to get a little more details of what state people are in after different flash steps to help make my warnings more precise rather than the general "don't do it" so if anyone has an MFG bootloader, already did radio flashes, and knows anything about MTTY please check out this thread:
http://forum.ppcgeeks.com/showthread.php?t=26196

(PS: don't ask questions in there, i reserve the right to moderate that thread as per the first post)

Re: Dangers of downgrading after installing GPS radio (and a little on signing)
 

UPDATE:

Fear not people, I got impatient while waiting for an answer to the question I posed earlier. So I just did it.

Good news is, my phone works fine. I ended up extracting the signed nbh file out of the latest HTC update. I then ran the rom update utility. All seams to be running as needed for Sprint exchange.

I did not re-lock the phone however.

I took it into Sprint and they checked it out. i will get my replacement sometime next week.

Re: Dangers of downgrading after installing GPS radio (and a little on signing)
 

uhm datapusher you flashed from a no2chem rom to the stock 3.35.04 radio.. obviously, this was going to work fine, both are gps radios. In fact, the no2chem rom you had probably ran on the 3.35 radio (or potentially 3.37 or 3.39.)

What you can not do is overwrite your 3.35 radio with a 2.xx radio, eg the one that comes with the sprint 2.17 rom, or the vzw 2.09 one, which is the problem we vzw users have when we need to send ours in for exchange.

Re: Dangers of downgrading after installing GPS radio (and a little on signing)
 

[quote=ImCoKeMaN;276445]Ok there is a TON of confusion here, let my try to clear things up.

SPLs:
0.40 will be overwritten by a flash if an nbh includes an SPL
2.31 will not be overwritten by an nbh (only via OS aka unlocker 0.40)

Radios:
1.xx radios/non-GPS work with 0.40 SPL only
3.xx radios/GPS work with 2.31 only

Okay, here goes. I have bricked my phone and I think I can now figure out why. I believe that I may have mistakenly loaded SPL 2.31 BEFORE upgrading my radio to 3.xx. I then flashed the new 3.05 ROM (w/ GPS). My device is now inoperable. It gets stuck at the HTC splash screen when I reboot OR, if I enter bootloader mode (take out battery, put battery back in, hold camera + power) I get the red/green/blue/white stripes and it reads "VOGU100 MFG, SPL-2.31.CoKe, CPLD-3".

I have tried the unbricking process and but every Sprint original signed ROM I download won't work (i.e., I get an RUU Error message telling me that the file is corrupted - this happens with every link I have tried). Any thoughts on how to unbrick? I appreciate all suggestions.

Re: Dangers of downgrading after installing GPS radio (and a little on signing)
 

uhm OffUrRocker I know this. This was for all the people who are afraid to flash back to stock for repairs or exchanges on their device. It can be done.

Re: Dangers of downgrading after installing GPS radio (and a little on signing)
 

lol why would somebody be afraid to flash from no2chem to the 3.35 rom that no2chem's is based on..
Nobody in the existence of this thread has provided any caveats about that. Thanks, though..

Re: Dangers of downgrading after installing GPS radio (and a little on signing)
 

i had a quick question. I started experiencing some problems with my touch today and i might have to send it in for repair/replacement. I have a Bell Touch and im guessing their phones are handled by UTStar and there was an official update from them. Though I understand these dangers and risks with downgrading, I think it would be very smart for me to restore the phone to its original state before returning it.

My question is, do you think it would be alright if i downgraded via utstars update for bell vogues, would it be just as risky,

AND

would i have to downgrade to the 0.40 spl before doing it?

and lastly, would u guys advice against it?

Re: Dangers of downgrading after installing GPS radio (and a little on signing)
 

Post 12 and 22 buddy.

I love when douchebags jump on a thread and have nothing positive or helpful to contribute but just want to talk shat. i'm done wasting my time on you.

Re: Dangers of downgrading after installing GPS radio (and a little on signing)
 

any advice? maybe imcokeman can help me out? im desperate here

Re: Dangers of downgrading after installing GPS radio (and a little on signing)
 

hey i have a quick questin here, just wondering if there would be any problems with flashing from 3.37.15 to 3.37.10? cheers

Re: Dangers of downgrading after installing GPS radio (and a little on signing)
 

All GPS radios are compatible.
Datapusher, I apologize for assuming a greater lowest common denominator of intelligence than actually exists here.

Re: Dangers of downgrading after installing GPS radio (and a little on signing)
 

HI i have your new alltell rom but not sure how to get gps can you help thanks

Re: Dangers of downgrading after installing GPS radio (and a little on signing)
 

"All GPS radios are compatible"

was that directed towards me? Just want to confirm that flashing from the sprint leaked radio 3.37.15 to the alltel 3.37.10 won't do my phone any harm.

cheers

Re: Dangers of downgrading after installing GPS radio (and a little on signing)
 

[quote=OJM;282775]Same exact thing here *****PLEASE HELP!!*****

I don't believe that is correct quote below... You ARE suppose to go to the Coke 2.31 before you do the radio update
"I believe that I may have mistakenly loaded SPL 2.31 BEFORE upgrading my radio to 3.xx"

Re: Dangers of downgrading after installing GPS radio (and a little on signing)
 

OK OJM... I figured out how to fix our problem MAybe this will help others as well.

After an insane amount of reading I figured out that it might work to do a SD card flash of the Alltell RUU 3.37.10

Easy to follow steps in order.

1. Use the 512mb card and make sure it was formatted in FAT32
2. Copy The Alltell files to the SD card
3. Power...Picture...Reset buttons at the same time for bootloader mode.
4. Let the unit load up on its own.
5. Soft reset at the time the Alltell rom want's to decompress the setup files. (you will see a message giving you 3 seconds)

Walla!!! Got it out of the Splash Screen and everything works.. After that I loaded up a Cooked 6.1 ROM that i liked with Rev A and GPS

The Sun's rising time to go to bed.... :mrgreen:

Re: Dangers of downgrading after installing GPS radio (and a little on signing)
 

[quote=lotus f1;289050]- Same thing happened to me, but i didn't try to go back to the stock rom... instead i just used the altell rom upgrade... and that got the device to boot, afterwards i noticed my internet didn't work, so i re-flashed it with OMJ's rom and it all worked perfectly... GPS and Rev. A are working fine

Re: Dangers of downgrading after installing GPS radio (and a little on signing)
 

I've done that several times with no problems.