From Verizon Touch Pro to Sprint version... is it really that much better?

[bast525]

Let me preface this by saying that this is going to be a fairly long post, but I hope it will be an interesting read for people on both sides of the fence.

I've had my Verizon TP for about three months now and have overall been happy with it, coming from a Samsung i760, I've felt that for the most part it was a good upgrade (minus the video/graphics performance, where the i760 stomps all over the Pro). But at the same time, I felt like I was missing out, because I knew that the Touch Pro's offered by other carrier's had the extra RAM, (arguably) better keyboard layout, supposedly faster processor...

I had originally wanted to buy the Sprint version but wasn't keen on paying a ton of cash outright for one. Then Verizon offered me a killer deal on one after my i760 started having a lot of problems, so I jumped on it.

A few days ago a coworker of mine comes in with a new Sprint Touch Pro, apparently got it as a gift, and wants to sell it and *ugh* buy an iPhone instead. I told him I MIGHT be interested, he comes back with a price that was impossible to say no to. So I snatched it up and figured, try it out, if it's better or worse, I can easily sell either version for more than I paid this guy for this phone.... so I did!

Of course, the first thing I did was go through the tutorial to get the Sprint Pro hooked up on VZW, which went very smoothly, with no problems getting EVDO/data going, and no problems getting rid of the roaming triangle. I then flashed it to the same ROM I'm using on my VZW Pro, a custom ROM cooked with Scrosler's simple kitchen, using build/XIP 20954. I then set the phone up with all the same software and settings, and have been using it as normal now for couple days.

First, let's talk about what you get for your hard earned $$$... Verizon loses major points for being CHEAP BASTARDS!!!

VZW Pro comes with:
Phone
Battery
2 x Stylus
Charger
Attachment for connecting headphones
Books, CD's blah blah

Sprint Pro comes with:
Phone
2 x Battery
2 x Stylus
Charger
Suede carrying case with belt clip
Headphones with micro USB connector and build in mic
1 GB Micro SD memory card
Attachment for connecting regular headphones
Nicer looking and more abundant documents/books, the software CD blah blah...

What's the deal Verizon?? Charge us more but give us less??? Incredible value buying the Sprint version, that's for sure....

Okay, next, let's talk about the overall build and 'cosmetics' of the devices. I want to point out that everything I'm about to say here can be taken with a grain of salt, if only because build quality from one device to the next of the same model can of course vary, so the problems I may note may not apply to every one else's TP.

Beauty is of course, in the eye of the beholder, but I bet there are few beholders here who would argue that the Sprint Pro is the far better looking device. Well... the FLASHIER device. You guys all know what they look like... oddly, the VZW looks BIGGER, even when it's right next to the Sprint... only when you litterally put them face-to-face that you see the dimensions are the same.

However, the Sprint feels much better in the hand. Nice and rounded with the soft-grip back plate. However, I do worry about all this chrome and the rubberized battery cover... that's not to say that Verizons high-gloss black plastic is invincible, on the contrary, it's pretty scratched up after just a few months. But I can only imagine that the Sprint would show normal wear and tear much worse as time goes on, if chrome gets chipped/cracked and that rubberized coating starts to wear off.

The build quality of the Sprint seems better, no odd "warping" below the screen (where the Verizon logo is they all seem to warp on VZW versions). Also, the D-Pad/front buttons are more flush and lined up correctly, on my VZW the seperate 'plate' that the four buttons/d-pad are on is crooked and sticks out a little (like .5 mm or something small like that). Speaking of the d-pad, the Sprint has the much better arrangement with the raised ridge circling the center action button, vs. VZW's flush arrangement. Much better feel for navigation or playing games (I do play a lot of games on my device during downtime). On the VZW I'm constantly hitting Send or Home when I mean to hit left, and End when I mean to hit right. I did not have this problem on the Sprint. The sliding mechanism on the Sprint feels a little nicer/smoother as well.

Negatives for the Sprint are that the power button is much more mushy... very hard to tell when you've actually pressed it, and volume buttons are sort of same. Also, the back battery cover on the Sprint is rediculously hard to remove. I was initially afraid I might break the two halves of the phone apart using the level of force necessary to remove the cover! Then I figured out it was safer to do it with the keyboard slid out so I could put pressure where it needed to be put. The VZW cover is easy to remove yet very secure once it's on.

Okay so... everyone makes a big deal about the keyboard. Indeed, the Sprint has more keys, but also smaller keys. This is probably going to be a matter of personal preference, but most people think just from looking at them that the Sprint is the better unit. Well... despite the odd seperation of the M key, I loved the VZW keyboard pretty much right off the bat. I liked that the keys were much larger than my i760's keys. I liked the programmable 'favorites' button.

Complaints about the Sprint KB... some of the keys seem redundant... really, TWO shift keys AND a caps lock key (when caps lock can still be initiated by tapping shift twice)?? A shortcut to the text message inbox right next to a messaging shortcut key? The tab key is welcome... the CTRL key as well though I did not seem to be able to get it to function correctly? I tried copying and pasting using the keys on the keyboard but it never worked for me in various apps I tried *shrug*. Also, the backlighting on the VZW is much more even, the Sprint has the number row very brightly lit, but the rest of the keys not so much.

I may be biased since I am already used to it, but honestly, I do like the VZW better, mostly for the bigger keys, makes fast typing easier for me.

Okay, now we'll talk more about functionality. First thing I noticed putting them side by side, set up with the same today screen and wallpaper, is that the Sprint screen has a much higher contrast ratio. TOO high. Blacks and darks are WAAAAY too dark, but the colors show much more saturation, and the whites are much brighter, with the brightness set the same on both units. The extra saturation gives things a very 'rich' look, but while viewing pictures and such the way-to-dark-darks made everything look like it was shot at dusk. But for brighter and more colorful images, the extra saturation really made colors pop, and made the VZW look 'faded' by comparison. Honestly I'm torn as to which I like better... it really came down to whatever I was doing at any given time... sometimes the Sprint wowed, sometimes it dissapointed.

I also immediately noticed that the Sprint screen is not nearly as sensitive to touch as the VZW. Out of several PPC's I've owned, the VZW pro is by far the closest a touch screen phone has come to the sensitivity of the iPod Touch that I have. It is VERY responsive to very light touch, and a joy to use when navigating pages in Opera Mobile or what have you. The Sprint version was not horrible, but one thing I noticed is that it was much less sensitive around the edges/corners of the screen than in the center (my i760 had that problem). The VZW seems to be equally sensitive anywhere.

This is probably where the Sprint guys start shaking their heads and calling BS... it sounds like I am getting a little down on the Sprint Pro, and really the more I played with it, the more dissapointed I got...

Next thing I noticed was the sound. This is actually the biggest offender on the Sprint. A) the sound on the Verizon is louder, and B) the sound on the Sprint sounds blown out at anything above 60%. My ringtone sounded like the speaker was blown. Playing music through WMP was likewise for many songs at more than 60% volume. But even both devices turned up to 100%, the Verizon was easily louder (and yes, even the VZW gets a little crackly at 100%).

Overall, again I am really split on which one I like better. For feel and looks I love the Sprint, and also the more vivid colors on screen. But the blown out sound, much smaller keys, and darker overall picture have made what should have been an easy decision, not so easy.

Well, now to the nitty gritty... THE PERFORMANCE!! Sprint fanboy's can leave the thread now, because you guys aren't going to like this part one bit.

Again, this is running the exact same ROM, same build/XIP/OS, same apps. Of course, after a fresh boot, the Sprint scores a mighty blow by booting with about 163 MB free RAM (I don't run TF3D), vs. the VZW's 66 MB.

A big deal, right? Well, for guys running TF3D on a improperly set up, non optimized or just plain bloated (or the stock) Rom, yeah I can see how it would be a big deal. With the ROM I run on the VZW, I get way more free RAM than I ever got stock, and even with TF3d running I hover in the 50 MB range. And seriously, coming from a phone that never had more than 30 megs free, that seems like plenty. With TF3D off, but several other apps open (I tend to play music, browse Opera, have Outlook open for texting back and forth with my wife, and Slick IM running to chat with friends, usually 4-5 or more apps open at any given time), I've never been able to run the phone's RAM all the way down. I believe the lowest I have seen was in the 20's, still plenty available, and the phone was still running like a champ. No horrible sluggishness, and no stability problems (20954 build/OS with the XIP tweaked by FormerPalm OS is REDICULOUSLY stable!!! First build I've ever run that could go over a week w/o a soft reset!!).

So honestly, the more I think about it, the more the RAM is not a big deal to me. IF I ran TF3d all the time I might feel a little differently, but honestly, you will probably strain the processor to a halt way before you ever run EITHER of these phones out of RAM.

Now, I haven't 'torture tested' the two back to back yet, but I did test the two with the usual kind of load I put on my VZW Pro, and even with all that extra RAM free, the VZW RAN JUST AS FAST AS THE SPRINT DID! I did not see ANY speed advantage on either phone, having several apps open, bouncing around the apps, browsing sites via WiFi, opening and closing the keyboard to test screen rotation. There were random times when one might do something slightly faster, and this seemed to be pretty evenly going back and forth between both phones, and it was never enough to even raise an eyebrow.

I also ran some benchmark tests using SK Tools and VS Benchmark 2007, and they performed more or less identically, always within a few points of each other. Putting to rest ANY ideas that the VZW somehow has an inferior processor, and that the lack of RAM is really hurting us that bad... it's not, unless 'torture testing' is how you run your phone every day.

Oddly, one thing that the Sprint handled noticeably poorer than the VZW, was playing Nintendo games via Pocket Nester. On the VZW this generally plays smoothly, but on the Sprint there were lots of stutters and also Vsync tearing. I double checked that all settings were the same, and that no other apps were running, but the Sprint consistently ran choppy.

Conversely, an area where the Sprint absolutely DESTROYED the VZW for speed... GPS locks!! Now, before flashing the custom ROM, I flashed the stock VZW ROM onto the Sprint, which had the side effect of putting the same radio version on both phones (1.3.03V I believe). With the Sprint, I had 10 locks in about 10-15 seconds. With the VZW, I had 6 locks in about 30 seconds.

?!?!? not sure why that is!! As far as actual reception, EVDO/signal bars, they were more or less the same, and fluctuated too much for me to say either was 'better', but at my home my signal is only OK, and they both averaged 2 bars.

So... there you have it. I am going to move back and forth between both devices for another couple of days and test some other things, but honestly I will very likely stick with the VZW and sell the Sprint. The blown speaker issue will likely be the deal breaker for me. I talk on speakerphone a LOT, and don't want it to sound like utter crap when I have to turn it up. And now that I've seen that the VZW really gives up nothing in the way of performance, the Sprint really only wins out on cosmetics and extras, and that most likely isn't going to make up for the problems it has. If I had the option to exchange the Sprint I'd try it and see if I just got unlucky, but then who knows what else might be wrong. Same reason I haven't taken the VZW back for the funky raised and crooked button/plate.

So for anyone who might be interested, I may be putting up a 99% new Sprint Pro (left hacked for Verizon, or flashed back for use on Sprint), here relatively soon... for everyone else, I hope you enjoyed my comparison! And for VZW specific users, I hope this will help you sleep a little better at night, knowing your Pro works just as well as those Sprint guys'! Oh and lastly, for anyone who thinks I might have Sprint-envy and just made this whole thing up to make myself feel better about having a VZW Pro, the photo evidence is attached at the bottom of the post

[syanni85]

excellent post i may add... but I really don't think you should be using the same rom u used on a crippled pro as the sprint pro. Honestly, you should flash juggalo's rom (IMO not bashing other roms at all) on the sprint pro. You may enjoy TF3D when you can finally use it to its FULL potential. The entire rom is blazing.

And as for the keyboard, i really didn't like the placement of the M key on the VZW... really? Secluded from all other keys mixed in with the directional arrow keys? bad move vzw.

Flip around a few roms, and IMO don't be testing the 2 devices with the same rom cuz they are not the "same" device...

excellent post once again.

[bast525]

Why NOT use the same ROM? The kitchen I cook with is multicarrier, it's not designed specifically for the 'gimped' VZW Pro. The only difference is that of course with the Sprint you can run a higher page pool. I'm running 16 vs. the 9 MB I run on the VZW. Other than that, what other way was there to make this as close to an apples-to-apples comparison as possible?

FWIW, a friend of mine with the Sprint Pro runs one of the Juicy ROMs and we compared speed on things like file browsing, opening Opera and rotating the screen, and found that my phone performed just as quickly. He didn't want to believe it either :P

As far as TF3D, I don't run it because I don't like it, I have my today screen set up in a way that works perfectly for me and puts all the info I want on one screen (SPB Phone suite for SMS, emails and missed calls, TodayAgenda for tasks and appointments, and Weatherpanel). Why do I want to spread this information across multiple tabs? Why turn one glance into multiple steps? Just so my phone can look more cool doing it? No thanks. It had nothing to do with TF3d not performing well. On Scrosler's ROM's, TF3d ran perfectly smooth. My choice not to use it has nothing to do with TF3d running slowly because the VZW Pro just can't handle it, because on a good ROM it can handle it just fine.

But you see what I meant? Sprint users are just CONVINCED that the VZW Pro just HAS to be soooo much slooooowwwerrrrr. First off, the processor is the same, whether the model number is the same or not, they are clocked the same and they benchmark the same. Try the SK Tools CPU benchmarks like the Floating Point Calculations test. VZW Pro performs just as well as the Sprint pro. Same thing with the CPU portion of the test on VS Benchmark.

As far as RAM... RAM only makes a device fast, or rather, LACK of RAM only makes a device SLOW, when you open so much stuff that you get very low. As I stated above, in my typical usage, even when I used to run TF3d, I never got down to less than 20 MB free on the VZW Pro. 20 MB in WinMo is not a critically low level. My i760 normally ran with mid-20 MB's. I didn't notice the device running any slower when RAM *did* get that low.

So unless you are running 20 apps at the same time (by which point all the RAM in the world isn't going to change the fact that the processor is going to be struggling and your phone will run slow be it Sprint, VZW or otherwise), if you put the two Pro's side by side, as I have done, you will not see a difference in performance. If you choose not to believe that, well... whatever you need to tell yourself to feel better about your choice in carriers, I guess. I laid out the cash to see for myself, so convinced that the Sprint Pro would just HAVE to be faster, only to find out that just wasn't the case.

[crazychef]

sprint TP DOES NOT come with a spare battery

[jbearamus]

Originally Posted by crazychef

sprint TP DOES NOT come with a spare battery

if only but no, sad isnt it

[pastafarian]

Nice comparison! I commend you for your work. Now a few slight criticisms.

1- My new in the sealed box Sprint Touch Pro came with ONE battery. As for VZW charging more for less? Duh!
2- The build quality, screen and button differences can all be explained as being within the build quality tolerance. I have no inside information, but I'd bet the farm that the buttons, screens and everything else beside the shell and the ram module are identical between models. I had 5 moguls and each was a little different than the others.
3- I'm not surprised that 96mb of ram didn't make a earth shattering difference. OTH, you're testing is like comparing how a 192hp car and a 288hp model perform at speed, on a road with a 70mph speed limit. Also, the VZW rom probably sets a smaller pagepool (6-8mb for VZW, 20-26mb Sprint)than the Sprints, in order to save memory. Using the VZW rom on the Sprint TP removes one of its bigger advantages.
4- There are Sprint fanboys?

The GPS lock times are curious, possibly Sprint allows some sort of aGPS while VZW does not? The other possibility is that the GPS chip in the VZW model wasn't up to snuff.

Thanks for the post!

[fiyah]

Originally Posted by pastafarian

Nice comparison! I commend you for your work. Now a few slight criticisms.

1- My new in the sealed box Sprint Touch Pro came with ONE battery. As for VZW charging more for less? Duh!
2- The build quality, screen and button differences can all be explained as being within the build quality tolerance. I have no inside information, but I'd bet the farm that the buttons, screens and everything else beside the shell and the ram module are identical between models. I had 5 moguls and each was a little different than the others.
3- I'm not surprised that 96mb of ram didn't make a earth shattering difference. OTH, you're testing is like comparing how a 192hp car and a 288hp model perform at speed, on a road with a 70mph speed limit. Also, the VZW rom probably sets a smaller pagepool (6-8mb for VZW, 20-26mb Sprint)than the Sprints, in order to save memory. Using the VZW rom on the Sprint TP removes one of its bigger advantages.
4- There are Sprint fanboys?

The GPS lock times are curious, possibly Sprint allows some sort of aGPS while VZW does not? The other possibility is that the GPS chip in the VZW model wasn't up to snuff.

Thanks for the post!

Great post. You said everything I was thinking. Are you a rastafarian by any chance?

[bast525]

Man... lots of hate I see. I wonder how many people who throw around terms like "gimped" and "garbage" have actually spent real time with both phones to see if there is this huge disparity in performance that everyone expects?

At any rate, been running it for a few hours witha 24 MB page pool up from 16 and honestly see no difference.

I might have to see if I cant get some video of the two side by side doing some common tasks to show there is no real speed difference....

[gnatsstang]

Originally Posted by crazychef

sprint TP DOES NOT come with a spare battery

mine did.

[bast525]

jmorton - that's what *I* was wondering. Stock to stock the Sprint seemed a little faster, but both were slow on the stock ROM. VZW on SSK 1.5 vs. Stock Sprint Pro, the SSK phone is TREMENDOUSLY faster.

That's not the first piece of misinfo that's been posted in this thread.....