Is the thickness worth having the hardware keyboard?
 

I just installed a VGA skin on my pocketcm keyboard, and wow, this phone responds so much better than my old Touch did. There is no delay when typing, like there is when typing on the hardware keyboard.

I can type out the typical text message on pocketcm almost before I rotate the phone, open the keyboard, and get half-way on the message...

I'm starting to debate whether the Pro is really worth being this thick, and having the keyboard--which is just something that can break. It already slides around a lot when it's closed... making me think the build quality is a bit IFFY.

Is anyone else thinking similarly? I REALLY thought that having a hardware keyboard would be a huge step up. I thought that all the times I was annoyed with my SIP before would magically be better... but I find myself MORE inclined to use the SIP for most input sessions... like changing a setting in a program, or typing in a quick URL, etc...

I find it HIGHLY annoying to use the hardware kb in most programs, because you have to wait for the screen to rotate and re-draw... it's especially annoying in Opera, because when you close the keyboard, the screen rotates back to portrait, even if you are holding it in landscape...

I find that the Pro gets very hot during phone calls, much like the Diamond does, and if it has nearly the same performance, I wonder if the Pro is worth the premium in price, and in size...

Just thinking, out loud, on a forum ;)

Re: Is the thickness worth having the hardware keyboard?
 

I tell myself:

1. The camera Flash is nice.
2. I hope the pro gets more attention and updates being a business phone.
3. The size is not THAT bad compared to older phones.
4. The Card Expansion slot is nice.
4. The larger memory is nice...

So... Umm... yeah, I am going to wait a few weeks before making a final decision, but so far I think I am keeping the pro, even if I use TouchPal more then the built in KB...

Re: Is the thickness worth having the hardware keyboard?
 

I was considering the Diamond until I saw the Pro. For me the factors that pushed me to the Pro were the keyboard but also the micro SD card slot. I have read some reports that the Pro has more memory than the Diamond but I am not so sure of that.

Re: Is the thickness worth having the hardware keyboard?
 

to be honest it's just up to you...you have to feel it in your hands...I just got a diamond for my dad and I really like the feel of it...The outer part of the diamond feels better too..it's not as slippery as the pro...plus the diamond is a lot lighter than the pro....with all that said I still like my pro though...

Re: Is the thickness worth having the hardware keyboard?
 

I like having a hardware keyboard, so for me, I'd say that it's worth it to have the Touch Pro. Every person is different.

As for the heat issue, mine has been significantly cooler than the Diamond. With the Diamond, a five minute phone call would produce boiling hot coffee. With the Touch Pro, a ten minute phone call would produce a warm coffee, just like most smart phones.

Funny story. I paid $370 for the Diamond through Tele Sales (hadn't done the rebate yet), and when I returned that, I got the Touch Pro from BestBuy for $260 after tax with no rebates. It's fun to think that the Touch Pro actually came out to be cheaper for me.

Re: Is the thickness worth having the hardware keyboard?
 

Physical keyboard is so much better for me. I'll take the added thickness and weight. Because the CDMA Touch Diamond is significantly thicker than it's GSM counterpart, the decision to get the Touch Pro was even easier for me.

Re: Is the thickness worth having the hardware keyboard?
 

My motto in recent days on SmartPhones: No Hardware Keyboard, No New Phone.

I'll never go to another SP that doesn't have a hardware keyboard.

Re: Is the thickness worth having the hardware keyboard?
 

I need the keyboard, the microSD, and the flash is great. All in all, yes, the extra width is worth every difference, not that the width bothers me in the least, anyway.

Re: Is the thickness worth having the hardware keyboard?
 

Jackalo, assuming you are holding your pro in portrait mode viewing a text message, and decided to reply... would you be able to write the following message faster in PCMkeyboard, or by rotating/opening/typing/closing/sending? ::

"hey i will be there in a minute. get me a table. thanks!"

just out of curiosity. becuase I am a VERY fast typer, on mostly any device I touch, whether it's a laptop, PDA, palmtop, regular phone, touchscreen, whatever... and I cannot seem to do it faster on the hardware keyboard... there is just a lot of wasted time rotating and whatnot...

Not saying I dislike the phone--just kinda brainstorming while I'm in that potential "returnable" phase...

The Diamond lacks the flash? that really sucks--although, it's a PITA to re-enable the flash EVERY time I open my camera... and where the hell is my dedicated camera button? It's one of the best cameraphones HTC has ever created, and I have to slide my finger, open the camera tab, wait for the images to load, then click the little itty bitty camera icon... YAWN...

again... just brainstorming...

other than the keyboard, flash, memory slot, and added heat, are there any downsides to the Diamond?

(I can't imagine the Diamond being any hotter, because this is INSANE.) My Vogue never got half as hot as my pro... Maybe my Pro is defective...

Re: Is the thickness worth having the hardware keyboard?
 

Criticalaudioinc has stated in this post:

"As of right now we are repairing the heating issue with the diamond along with the battery issue, The heating issue was the heat plate was not added to the design, and the battery issue was due to reg error.

Now as there being a delay for the pro I do not see it due to we are shipping out today, and other centers in the PTZ and MTZ are also shipping out. Now we did have a issue where the phones had to be flashed with the new CDMA information due to change of towers and a radio flash. But our Team was able to start on this on the 11th and have it done by 8pm on the 16th and ready for shipping. If you have any other questions please feel free to ask I will try my best to obtain the information and get a answer for you."

That alone was a final factor to turn me away from the Diamond at the time.

Here is the post link...

http://forum.ppcgeeks.com/showpost.p...&postcount=116


Here is some more related info...

http://forum.ppcgeeks.com/showpost.p...&postcount=125

Re: Is the thickness worth having the hardware keyboard?
 

Here's my "IMHO" about this:

To start, I actually prefer the thickness of the Touch Pro. The thickness of the Mogul was one of the things that I missed when I switched to the Touch. I have rather big hands, so the Mogul and Touch Pro feel much more natural to hold than the Touch or Diamond do. So, that answers the main question.

I also would be extremely dissatisfied knowing that I only have 4GB of internal storage with ZERO option to upgrade. That really sucks, considering 8GB micro SD cards are dirt cheap now, and 16GB aren't super expensive either. For this reason alone I wouldn't switch to the Diamond. I also told myself after a couple months with the Touch that I will never go back to a device with on-screen input ever again. After a year with my Touch, I got so damn fast at typing on it that I could type much faster than I can with any hardware keyboard (Touch Pro/Mogul), but it was the little things that really pissed me off. Slang words not in the dictionary, brand names, symbols, numbers, etc. Also, it was depressing to type out an entire sentence, then go back to read it to check for mistakes, and you find a couple words that got replaced with more "common" words. T9 is so friggin annoying, and I feel much more control with a hardware keyboard.

Also, I love the flash. Not just for the flash capability for camera use, but I frequently use it as a flashlight around the house at night when my gf is sleeping or whatever, and I need to navigate to the kitchen, etc. I used it a lot on my Mogul and missed it dearly on my Touch.

So...basically...all the "little differences" are HUGE differences to me. The size wouldn't matter to me anyway, because I hate pulling phones out of my jeans pockets anyway. I've started to use the carrying case. There was nothing more frustrating to me than trying to pull out my Touch out of my jeans pocket while driving. The damn cover was so "sticky" that it would cling to my pocket and it was a B***H to get out every time, even though it was so small, so it's not like I'm missing out on anything.

Ok...now I've said too much. But...you get the picture. :D

Re: Is the thickness worth having the hardware keyboard?
 

Well if you're talking about sprint versions, does it really matter? From my understanding, the sprint version of the diamond was enlarged over the gsm version anyway (.6"). The pro is .7", so it doesnt seem like a big difference like comparing the gsm versions.
I was contemplating the same thing until i found out about the increase in size for the diamond... plus i'm not a fan of the red back. Now i'm completely sold on the TP.

Re: Is the thickness worth having the hardware keyboard?
 

i dunno im still on the fence too. its not all just the size, it weighs more too. it does feel bulkier in the hand- maybe its just the curves to the pro i dont know but it feels larger than it should feel for 3mm thicker.

im also far from impressed with the pro build quality so far, my diamond is flawless after a month and out of the box my pro has the raised d-pad (very slighlty but noticable) theres already a little flaking of the chrome by the power button (chrome is always the FIRST thing to scratch or flake on a phone, horrible deicision on this device or any expensive phone) and i NEVER abuse my phone- i just sold a 1 year old orig. Touch in perfect shape, not a mark on it, so the flaking chrome wasnt me bumping or scratching it.

Also im VERY concerned about the slider- its feels very cheaply made and loose when closed. I also dont like when youre holding the phone and tap the screen it moves around forward and back because of the gap between the 2 halves of the phone (feels squishy and not firm to tap the screen, very disconcerning feel), and it CREAKS (battery cover does too). And im the last one to nitpick a phone, but this is supposed to be their top of the line PRO device at $600.

Im on the fence right now but I had a free Diamond and out of contract on SERO, and i didnt resign for 2 years and pay $260 for a poorly built device when their nearly identical device, the Diamond, feels like a rock and small in the hand. The hard keyboard is nice but like u ive learned to type fast with pocketcm keyboard. I just am starting to feel locked in 2 years (even if i am staying its always nice to have freedom n out of contract) and paying $260 simply wasnt worth the upgrade from the diamond with the poor build quality were seeing around so far with various creaks and speaker/earpiece issues etc

Re: Is the thickness worth having the hardware keyboard?
 

I guess I am thinking more along the lines of is it worth it to have a two-section phone, like the pro, with more parts to break with a less-sturdy design, and be SLIGHTLY bigger?

Right now, I guess I am kinda leaning towards the Diamond, mostly because of screen and speaker issues.... but if I get them fixed, I can deal with other things.

seriously though, the keyboard lag while typing is INFURIATING... everytime I start a message, if I type at my normal pace, I get an entire sentence typed out before it shows up on the screen.

Re: Is the thickness worth having the hardware keyboard?
 

I think my Touch Pro feels pretty solid. Everyone complains about the keyboard part but...what do you expect? It's a slide out keyboard, and it slides out really far. I honestly think they used good components for it to reduce the possibility of damage. Structurally, it's a sound phone. I don't have the issue with the raised buttons at the bottom either.

Re: Is the thickness worth having the hardware keyboard?
 

Yes. The thickness is not that bad.

Re: Is the thickness worth having the hardware keyboard?
 

Build quality is a big concern to me as well... the phone feels like it could EASILY break, whereas my friends 6700 feels like a tank, and it only slightly larger.

I have heard that the keyboard mechanism on the Tilt has a sturdier design... and that TILTS! :)

I am really worried about the slider design... it has a sort of scraping sound when I open it... not nearly as fluid as I had hoped it would be.

I just hope when I get this replaced at BB, that a few of these things work themselves out. I cannot figure out why the keyboard has so much damn slack in it when the unit is closed... it feels like they aren't even connected... I can rotate the kb almost 5 degrees in both directions. So much that when I try to push the volume buttons (which are stupidly on the top section, the phone just moves, and the buttons don't get pressed.

Oh, and another thing. Why the FRICK does every HTC phone have to have a poorly designed battery cover that squeaks? That's my biggest problem will these phones... every time I press a button, or touch the phone, the damn battery cover squeaks... it moves like 1-2mm it seems... I try padding it with paper towels, but it doesn't completely solve the issue. Also, on my TP, there are places on the side of the battery cover that "poke out." like the cover doesn't play nice with the track it slides on, and I can feel where the cover is bending and sticking out... which is undoubtedly causing the squeak/movement...

Just venting...

Re: Is the thickness worth having the hardware keyboard?
 

Have you ever used a 6700, Mogul, or Tilt? (just asking.)

Agreed, I really have no problem with the thickness... I just wonder if it's worth having the extra moving parts, especially when the slider feels a bit questionable.

The keyboard itself is a dream though... but the delay while typing is a nightmare...

Re: Is the thickness worth having the hardware keyboard?
 

Best Buy and insurance removes any fear I have about the phone breaking... :P

Re: Is the thickness worth having the hardware keyboard?
 

All of the above. Did you not read my 10000 word post before that one? :p

Re: Is the thickness worth having the hardware keyboard?
 

Sorry, getting tired here... so you think that the TP has a better build quality than the 6700 and 6800?

Really, the only aspects of the build quality that bother me are the sloppy keybord (while closed,) the screen not working so well around the edges, and the high percentage of users with bad speakers (including myself.)

Re: Is the thickness worth having the hardware keyboard?
 

Better build quality? I don't know, probably not. The 6700 was a complete brick, and the 6800 was kinda solid. I'm not sure why the Pro's is a little loose, but it still feels like it's quality and it's not going to break. The only frustrating part is when you're holding a certain way and press the volume buttons, it pushes the screen.

The screen not working so well around the edges is because it's a flush screen and the sides are pretty solid, and it's not terrible IMO. It's not like I have to press hard or anything, lol.

Re: Is the thickness worth having the hardware keyboard?
 

Note that the issue with the screen not working so well around the edges is also a problem with the Diamond.

Re: Is the thickness worth having the hardware keyboard?
 

True and True. Sometimes I do worry that the keyboard might break sometime in the future, but then I remember that i have insurance :). And I'm sure if it starts to happen to alot of people sprint will start replacing it for free.

And hopefully some of these custom roms that will be coming out will fix the delay while typing, that so far is the only thing i REALLY do no like about this phone. Other then that, it is leaps and bounds better then my samsung a900 that i had before this :headbang:

Re: Is the thickness worth having the hardware keyboard?
 

I find i can use the on screen keyboard on the TP much better than anything on the mogul.
howver, for typing up an extended email. I'll use the hardware keyboard.
also, this is the first SP that can properly display my telnet BBS, and the keyboard is a must for that.
and i like that this thing is shiny and solid and has heft. it's built like a freaking lexus or something.

Re: Is the thickness worth having the hardware keyboard?
 

mine has the same slack in it too, i just think how they keyboard was designed. That doesnt bug me nearly as much as when you tap the screen it "clacks" the 2 halves of the phone together. Try it, just give a swift lil tap on th eleft side of the screen and youll hear it clack (wont happen on the right where the hindge is), its a very annoying sound and poor build qauilty IMO. I know slide out keyboards are usually the weakest part, but i had a mogul and 6700 in the past and they felt more solidly built than this one is.

i noticed (accidently) if you press the chrome a little around the dpad, the dpad starts to pop up. not good, again shoddy build.

And like you said when its closed theres a ton of play, i get there has to be a little but liek you said its a good few degrees the screen will twist. Again poor build quality, and i don teven have a bad speaker like some!!

Overall i think its going back. Id rather go back to SERO out of contract on a free Diamond that i still have, then pay $260 and resigning for 2 years to have this thing which is not very well built IMO and not worth $600. Its unfortunate because HTCs other product on Sprint, the Diamond, feels rock solid all over. I dont type too many long emails that couldnt wait until i get to a computer or my laptop i was just hoping to try out having a real keyboard again, everything short i can manage tapping pocketcm keyboard pretty well. The other things people say they love, well honestly theyre just toys/eye candy like the flash and business card reader. honestly how often will you use that is the question. the little light is pretty useless as a camera flash if its dark youre not getting a good **** anyways. If you need a flashlight get a $1-2 keychain one. The business card reader is jsut software and someone will rip the files off. The microsd is nice, but 4gb is enough for average users. I have igo8 (just for my state), 2 full movies, and prob jus over 100 songs plus my cache for programs on it and not even touching 1.5 gb yet.

It really depends on your needs, but IMO if youre like me save your $ because the Diamond is just built better and "more worth the $" but that jsut my opinion. I dont think a phone falling apart after having it 4 or 5 days is worth even $260+2 years, even if it was a great deal at BB.

Re: Is the thickness worth having the hardware keyboard?
 

I know most will disagree, but for those of us with big hands, the Diamond is just too small. Every time I held the thing It felt like I was going to drop it. The Thickness of the pro is great for me.

Coming from a Dell Axim (which I had an attachable keyboard for) I find myself using the keyboards just as I did there, the soft keyboard for quick entries and the hard keyboard for longer emails texts and document entries.

So Yes the thickness is well worth having the flexibility of a HW keyboard!

Re: Is the thickness worth having the hardware keyboard?
 

The Touch screen is more flush than the Pro, and it worked fine.

I think it's because the screen does not 'fit' perfectly in this casing. It's just a tiny bit too large and it's being squeezed or otherwise compromised. This is causing the touch screen to act up.

Either that, or its because the screen is recessed SO FAR that they added the touchscreen and plastic spacer to make it work flush like this, and somehow that spacer/touchscreen is not properly integrated. Either way, The outer areas of the screen are about 5-10 times less sensitive than the inner areas.

With that said, if the Diamond has the same issues, I can't see myself jumping ship--because then I'd be REALLY frustrated.

Overall, I'm pretty disappointed with both the Diamond AND the Pro... in terms of build quality, QA, glitches, bugs, etc.

WM6/6.1 has been out for ages, so you'd think they would have worked mostly everything out. TF3D has been out for a good while too... There's nothing so REVOLUTIONARY about this phone that gives it the right to be problematic.

I still like it, and I think I'll stick with it, but man, the keyboard lag/screen/speaker issues are just, wow...

Re: Is the thickness worth having the hardware keyboard?
 

honestly my hand cramps using the diamond because it is so small so the added size will be actually a bonus for me.

Re: Is the thickness worth having the hardware keyboard?
 

I will start this off by saying this.....

"You don't know what you've missed until you have it back again"

I really didn't know how much I missed having a software keyboard until I got the touch pro. Before getting the pro, I had the diamond for 30 days but before that I had the first gen Touch. Before moving to the touch, I had the Treo 700wx. When the touch came out I was a little skeptical about moving to a "non keyboard" phone. I had had my 700wx since the day it came out and I was badly in need of an upgrade.....so I jumped ship for the touch. After a short time I started to like the touch screen keyboard and got pretty good at using the "compact QWERTY" keyboard with T9. It was great for short texts and quick email replies. It became cumbersome when I needed to type long emails. I would find that most times i would need to re-read emails to make sure there wasn’t anything funny in the text due to a mistype or word replace. But as most of us "Phone *****s" do.... I wrote the minor inconvenience off in favor of the bigger screen, smaller size etc. etc.

Now fast forward to the pro.....
This phone can do everything my Treo, touch, and diamond can do all put together! I can send quick one handed text replies in a sec with the "compact QWERTY" keyboard with T9. i can bang out a lengthy email with ease with the keyboard. The VGA screen is just plain sick! Having an SD slot is a huge plus over the diamond, not to mention the extra internal memory that the pro has over the diamond (including all the sprint Bloat ware). Once the custom built ROMs start rolling out for the pro, I don’t think the diamond will be able to match up. One other thing that pushed me away from the diamond (not to sound like a broken record here….) was the battery life and heat issue.

The diamond is a great phone.....but for me and what I do, the Pro is the better choice.

Re: Is the thickness worth having the hardware keyboard?
 

I had a Mogul for 5 Month and then switched to the Touch which I had for almost a year now. Despite not having too many problems with the touch screen keyboard on the Touch I decided to get the Touch Pro instead of the Diamond figuring it wasn't too much bigger and I had the added bonus of the hardware keyboard.

After almost a week of ownership I have realized I almost never use the hardware keyboard both out of a combination of habit and the fact I am just as fast on the touch screen keyboard. I also realized I miss the smaller size of Touch that the Diamond would give me. Everyone talks about there being not much difference between the Pro and Diamond in size but i beg to differ. The Diamond is 14mm thick compared to 18mm on the Pro. That makes the diamond almost 25% thinner. It also weighs 4.1oz vs 5.3oz making it again almost 25% lighter. It may not sound like a lot but if you have average or smaller then average sized hands it can be substantial. I will be exchnaging my Pro for a Diamond this weekend. Again nothing wrong with the Pro, I just didn't find the hardware keyboard useful enough for me to justify the added size.

Re: Is the thickness worth having the hardware keyboard?
 

I find the hardware keyboard can be useful at times, but for some reason, out of habit and out of perfecting PCMkeyboard use, I am actually SLOWER at the hardware keyboard... and that's not including all the time I have to waste by rotating/etc.

If the Diamond had perfect screen sensitivity (even, all over the screen,) and perfect speakers, I think I would jump ship--but it seems like they both have similar problems, just the Pro has a keyboard slapped on the bottom...

Re: Is the thickness worth having the hardware keyboard?
 

Personally I like that it's bulkier in my pants... So do all the ladies :drunken:

Nah JK, don't have mine yet Nov 2nd.. We'll see. Would like to find that HTC GSM CAST (case) and see how much bulkier it'd be carrying in my pocket..

IMHO I think the resolution of the screen has something to do with how the touching works. The touch's keyboard was more responsive and I could type out quicker on it than on my Diamond, it would almost always choose the letter next to the one I tapped, so I would have to slow down and really watch which one it picked as I typed.

After switching back to the mogul, I realized I really had slowed down texting or replying on the Touch. but once back on the Mogul I started replying via text much more.. It's something I think we start to get used to and rather than replay the way we'd have wanted to, we shorten the message just because it's more annoying..

On the Diamond it got even more annoying, after the first week, the "extras" just really didn't matter over the Touch.. Take into consideration there was no Kitchen support for it yet, and the one available just made my phone unstable and I would revert and leave it default, which was quite nice anyways.

What bothered me about the Diamond too was the Dpad 4 button areas lifting up and also not responding.. SIGH

-CC

Re: Is the thickness worth having the hardware keyboard?
 

I dig the Touch Pro. Having a keyboard is a requirement for me. When I went to Sprint and ATT to test drive all their SPs, I realized teh Diamond, Touch, iPhone, and all those other cool touch screen only devices would NOT work. Took me FOREVER to type a message on the screen....I have two left hands :-p. The keyboard is a requirement.

I don't suffer from the slack on the keyboard, though.....

I like the size and for all the goodies with the device, I am happy with it. I jusr wish I could customize some stuff with it but will wait until stable cabs have been released....

If only I could have waited til the HTC Touch HD was coming out.....

Off topic, anyone received their cradles yet? Dying to know if they fit! And has anyone ordered the extended battery/back cover? Wondering if those fit as well! Sheesh, the battery life SUCKS! That's my only complaint about the the TP.

Re: Is the thickness worth having the hardware keyboard?
 

Isn't that a bit contradictory? The Touch HD has no hardware keyboard. Hell, it doesn't even have a D-PAD!


I think that would be a deal killer for me. I used the D-pad on my Touch to no end. I am actually having issues because the Pro's d-pad is harder to use.

Re: Is the thickness worth having the hardware keyboard?
 

Well believe it because my Diamond got waayyy hotter than my pro does people aren't just making this up. I read somewhere that htc forgot to put a heat plate behind the screen in the diamond and are discussing this with sprint as we speak. (Don't know if this is completly true so take with a grain of salt but it does make sense) But to answer the question in your first post i think the extra thickness is more than worth it. The lag you see when typing (which i dont have unless im turbo typing :-)) will be fixed when we finally get some custom roms. We already see how much custom roms have improved the diamond as far as speed and functionality goes. Give the Touch Pro a chance and you will not be disappointed.

Re: Is the thickness worth having the hardware keyboard?
 

I like the hardware keyboard, but even if I could convince myself I didn't need it, the lack of the microSD slot is a deal breaker for me and the Diamond. I have a 6GB card in my Apache right now, that's over half full. I don't want to get a Diamond and be using pretty much all of my available storage on day 1.

Re: Is the thickness worth having the hardware keyboard?
 

DOH! I meant the HTC Touch Pro HD!

http://www.engadgetmobile.com/2008/09/15/htcs-touch-hd-unveiled-in-very-much-official-glory/

Re: Is the thickness worth having the hardware keyboard?
 

this is the perfect thread for me, because I have less than ten days to either trade for the pro or keep my diamond. Right know I am leading towards keeping the diamond. I never thought about phone size, even with my treo 700wx, but I really enjoy the smaller diamond.
This is my first on screen keyboard, and the learning curve is not that bad. I can even type using both thumbs with little error.

I know I could live with the extra size, but should I have to just to get a few extra lines of an email that I would rather write on my laptop anyway. For texting it is excellent.

I hated how my treo would chip, and like how the changed for the 800. I think there is nothing worse than getting a slick new phone, only to see it chip after a few months, and as some report, even sooner.

I think the decision should come down to how you use the phone. If I couldn't use the onscreen keyboard I would switch. I would also switch if I was going to put alot of media on it. Outside of that, I don't see the benefit in the upgrade.

Re: Is the thickness worth having the hardware keyboard?
 

You can fix this now by turning off word suggestion and auto correction.