Should the chefs start helping Android?
 

Well, I'm asking the question: How many of you think our chefs should take some time away from WM development and try to start aiding in the development of Android?

I mean, how many of you think Windows Mobile has gotten any LESS sluggish and any MORE enjoyable within the last 3 months of ROM releases? WM6.5 + Sense 2.5 is a pig on my phone even after a fresh flash. And then if you add CHT, you might as well just give yourself a sedative to help ease the pain of how slow the device runs.

Right now, I have Android 2.1 on my phone with the CPU overclocked to 700MHz and this thing SCREAMS! Not to mention, Android has a 1000x better developer base and all of the functionality of WinMo when rooted. If the Android developers could sort out the few remaining issues, I (and many others) would probably switch to Android 24/7! The only reason I even boot into WinMo right now is because sound doesn't work in Android and I always lift to Slacker radio.

Currently, the TP2 + Android is the BEST QWERTY Android device available (in my opinion). Wouldn't it be nice to see some of our awesome cooks working to move the ball forward on the last few issues in Android?

Re: Should the chefs start helping Android?
 

Hellllllllllllll to the nizzzaawwwwwwwwwww..!!! If our chefs left WinMo alone, I'd leave WinMo all together lol..

Re: Should the chefs start helping Android?
 

That's the point lol... WinMo already GOT LEFT altogether for Windows Phone 7.

There's really only so much more our chefs can do to make it any better and let's face it, it has a HUGE hill to climb to reach android performance right now.

Re: Should the chefs start helping Android?
 

You're comparing apples and oranges... When Honda stopped making the CRX, people didn't stop buying/modifying them... When Windows XP was surpassed by Vista, people didn't stop developing in XP...

IMO, It's all user preference and as of right now I'm on board with WinMo (and so are about 80% of the other members in this forum)... Android is cool, but it's new still and has a long way to go before it reaches the heights Windows had done... And it's not Android that makes the phone run sick, it's that your comparing it to memory hoggin ass Sense 2.5 on a 528mhz phone, so of course a 1ghz phone with app's is gonna seem a lot cooler... But to some of us, being cool isn't everything... Being reliable is though, and I read far to many stories about people with Android to be able to say it's superior to WinMo as of yet... Maybe soon, maybe not, but as of right now WinMo deserves the attention it's getting from our chefs because without them it'd be a lost cause...

It's also ironic how it's mainly new users, and the younger generation that find Android to be so much better, I guess us old school guys who were Windows 95 pimpin back in the day have gotten so used to Windows being dominate that we never seemed to let new toys phase us... Windows will never die, bet that...

Re: Should the chefs start helping Android?
 

actually, i'd prefer that they stuck it out until windows phone 7. i'm sure that will get hacked and need optimizing.

Re: Should the chefs start helping Android?
 

Not all chefs are devs, some don't code and do all the stuff needed to port Android. Also, I know it seems like a lot would switch to android, but I'm not not all, I'm sure there would be a ton of people staying with Windows Mobile. All these chefs actually make it usable, I'm sure there are some features left on Windows Mobile that Android doesn't have and that probably would keep some from switching.

Re: Should the chefs start helping Android?
 

I guess I'm with the stick-it-out-until-Win7 crowd. Heard bad stories about Android's reliability and I'm very happy with my WinMo phone *now* . Personally, I've got 10 months to make up my mind...

Re: Should the chefs start helping Android?
 

Honestly, I agree with you. I used to view Android as a toy that the dummies in the world could play with and think it was a smartphone. However, Android does everything I need it to do at a FAR greater pace than WinMo ever has. Of course Sense 2.5 is weighing WinMo down. And of course comparing my 528MHz WM6.5 ROM to a 700MHz Android OS is comparing apples to oranges, but even at stock, Android still wipes the floor with WinMo in performance. And I'm not talking strictly about how poorly Sense 2.5 performs, I'm talking about the inner workings of WinMo (like SMS/MMS client).

I understand that there are still issues with Android that need to be resolved (Exchange issues, app crashing, etc). But for a majority of things, I view Android to be the superior OS. And when you mention reliability, I understand what you mean. WinMo has been (for the most part) a very stable OS for me. However, with all the troubles I have had with SoD's and generally TERRIBLE response time, I would trade away some of that "reliability" for speed.

Naturally those die-hard Windows fans that have been around since WM5 or prior are going to be fans of Windows Mobile until the bitter end. But honestly, if those people opened their eyes, they would be a lot more satisfied with Android (at least on our TP2).

Originally, I loved how customizable and flexible WinMo could be. I loved being able to make the interface my own and make my phone unique and to my liking, but with the TP2's hardware, WinMo is just too much of a slug to endure. If I was on the HD2, I bet I would be perfectly fine with WM6.5.

Re: Should the chefs start helping Android?
 

I can't tell if you're speaking about Android-specific devices or Android on tp2.... if it's the former, then you're incorrect. Android has already reached reliable status and is very enjoyable (i use both an EVO 4G and TP2). Yes, 1GHz helps, but the ease of use for Android to do many of the same things that WinMo can do is really sweet. The support from devs makes it even better because it takes u to new heights that WinMo never reached because of lack of development.

You're right, it's not about being cool, it's about being reliable and in my experience this past month, Android is cool and reliable. Not sure where you're getting that WinMo is more reliable? In what way?

If HTC put an official version of Android on the tp2 hardware (not the hacked crap), it would be a lot less sluggish. The HD2 with its 1ghz cpu still gets the little waiting cursor when opening apps... wtf.

Re: Should the chefs start helping Android?
 

You guys must have better TP2's or better ROM's than I do because mine is god awful at the moment. My text entry in an SMS gets up to 40-50 characters behind what I'm typing. And randomly, my WM will just start dumping battery power like mad. I don't have any exchange servers set up and I have 2 e-mail accounts sync every 30 minutes, yet my battery will randomly heat up and dump 10-15% in 15 minutes even when the device is "asleep."

Also, why stick it out til WP7? Maybe our chefs will get it running on the TP2, but it will undoubtedly be just as sluggish as WM6.5 w/ Sense. Not to mention, WP7 removes a ton of the great things that I still love about WinMo (undetected tethering, modifying the UI, etc.)

I'm not trying to start a battle by any means, I just don't see any improvement in WinMo since the ROM I was on back in April except for the headway that the Android port has made since then.

My point exactly. Thus the question about encouraging some chefs (or ANYONE really) to help get the Android port more bug-free and usable.

Re: Should the chefs start helping Android?
 

why is anyone trying to make decisions for chefs/devs??

let the chef/dev decide what platform they wanna use..

its not our choice..

Re: Should the chefs start helping Android?
 

Android, in such a short time, is far more mature (in general) than Windows Mobile. I am so impressed with the integration of apps. It does so many of the things I always wished WM would do. Of course, having a huge screen (EVO) and nearly twice the processor don't hurt performance, which has been a welcome change, too. Still, I might could stand the sluggishness I experienced at times if the integration was there. I want to be able to have information pushed and pulled to and from one app to another, like contacts. And, I don't agree that Sense 2.5 in a custom ROM is the main culprit of the slowdowns. Months ago, when I tried Android on my TP2, w/o overclocking or anything, it was so much faster and smoother to use than WM. Even the stock 6.1 ROM was not as smooth as that.

I thought my TP2 was the best phone I'd ever had, and it was, but I am finding it easy to move away from WM and to Android. It is amazing how far it has come so rapidly.

P.S. I do miss Bing, though. The traffic from Google is hopelessly outdated by the time the information gets to my phone. I always found Bing did a much better job with hardly any delay in getting accurate traffic info.

Re: Should the chefs start helping Android?
 

Not trying to decide for them at all. I was just trying to get the community as whole (Android and WinMo advocates) to speak up about what they wouldn't mind seeing.

Obviously anyone on this forum should appreciate everything that the chef's do for us in their builds. It's just getting a little old (for me at least) to upgrade and flash a new ROM only to see little to no difference in speed or usability.

Re: Should the chefs start helping Android?
 

My brother has already returned his EVO twice for Android related issues... So as far as being reliable, I guess you got lucky but you can't say I'm wrong when I witness first hand him bringing his brand new phone in more than I bring in my year and half old phone... Android shit should just stay in the Android forum IMO, Android has nothing to do with WinMo and a large majority of us love WinMo for the time being... Sucks that there are so many haters...

Re: Should the chefs start helping Android?
 

well maybe you should learn how to make things yourself then??

Re: Should the chefs start helping Android?
 

Don't take it personally bud. It's just an opinion.

If I could make ROM's for myself, I would, but it still wouldn't change the fact the WinMo is a pig with Sense for lipstick.

I am not a hater of WinMo per se, I am a hater or WinMo on the TP2.

Re: Should the chefs start helping Android?
 

I didn't say that my Phone doesn't have issues, but it's sure much better then it was when I had a Stock ROM on it. The chefs actually made it usable. I do have these issues, my text lags a lot, I also don't use exchange servers. I like android sure, but what I was saying is that not all the chefs are devs too. They can't just start porting android with no knowledge of it. We also shouldn't be telling these chefs what they should or shouldn't be doing, they're taking there time to make these ROM's with no expectations of anything.

It's not just easy to learn how to port android onto a phone. It's not that easy, if it was it probably would have been done by now. What bored was saying is that if you really want Android on this phone so bad, why don't you start porting it, rather then saying what other people should do.

I would sure love to see Android fully ported to this phone, but that doesn't mean we should just tell the chefs what they should and shouldn't be doing.

Re: Should the chefs start helping Android?
 

You think if Windows Mobile just came out it wouldn't be far more mature than the competitors as well..?? Your comparing a brand new O/S to something that's aged and prospered for quite a while... Again, this is an apples/oranges topic....

Re: Should the chefs start helping Android?
 

Apparently cooking ROMs and writing code are one in the same... And...writing device drivers for linux is definitely something a cook who uses a visual kitchen to create a ROM can do with ease.

Re: Should the chefs start helping Android?
 

Sounds highly unlikely to me... If writing codes were as simple as cooking ROM's, and the assumed bounty had been offered (like it already has) I think we would have had an excellent Android OS already ported for us WinMo users... But since it hasn't quite worked out like that, I doubt it's that simple...

Re: Should the chefs start helping Android?
 

I believe he was being totally sarcastic trying to show the OP how chefs can't just port android that simply... That's all his point was. Because apparently the OP thinks that porting android is pretty simple.

Re: Should the chefs start helping Android?
 

This is not something that I am implying at all.

The few remaining issues with Android being fully functional have to do with portions of code that WM uses. Therefore, I thought it might be beneficial if some of our more experienced and knowledgeable chefs take a look at some of the code in their ROM's (such as the WM audio driver, camera driver, BT stack, etc.)

I apologize for stirring up everyone's emotional ties to WinMo, I was simply trying to bring up a possibility that may not have occurred to anyone yet.

I am very appreciative of the chefs and all that they have done. I ABSOLUTELY AGREE that without the cooked ROMs, the TP2 would be a much more buggy and slow device. However, I feel that in the past few months, noticeable improvements in ALL WinMo ROMs have been few and far between, which is why I thought it might be a good time to call WM good and be done with it.

Who knows, maybe I am just flashing the wrong ROM's. I've been using X ROM exclusively since April... I guess I should check out some of the others like Vin's ROM.

Re: Should the chefs start helping Android?
 

The OP (being myself) doesn't think it is that simple. The OP (myself) simply thought that the assistance of some WM chefs might help move the ball forward a little on the few remaining issues in Android since the remaining issues have ties back to how WM does things.

Re: Should the chefs start helping Android?
 

I'm sorry, from your posts it looked like you thought it was just simple to port android, and seemed like you thought the Chefs should just start doing everything we say. Your first posts didn't seem like all you wanted the Chefs to do is move the ball forward, it seemed like you wanted them to drop what they were doing to work on android.

Re: Should the chefs start helping Android?
 

x2 on that

Re: Should the chefs start helping Android?
 

My bad. I have edited my initial post to reflect my intentions.

I don't think chefs should stop doing anything. Cooking is (obviously) their passion and should continue to be. However, I think with their assistance, we could make the TP2 and even greater device by adding the diversity and functionality of Android OS.

Re: Should the chefs start helping Android?
 

Not to be a **** or anything, but have you ever personally "cooked" a rom for WM? The cooks don't necessarily do it the same way you or I might, but after the various build and Manila versions taken from other similar devices (these don't come in easy-to-use packages found within the "Kitchen"), I think customization and optimization become the main focus for our chefs (regsitry entries, applications, themes/startup screens, Manila/speed/power tweaks, etc..). I don't mean to oversimplify what they do because if making quality and stable roms were easy, we'd all be running our own crap ;) It takes time, patience, plenty of updating, and lots of testing to make a rom worth running more than two hours.

Now consider porting an entire operating system to a specific hardware set and decompiling drivers while tracing events and fuctions through both the code and harware drivers... it's a very different animal from WM roms. The sticking point right now is the sound (read about it in the Andoir subforum). I've looked at a several functions and proposed fixes in the Android forums, and it's definitely while almost infinitely more involved than cooking roms (coming from 6+ years of C/C++). I'm not familiar with any of the cooks' programming backgrounds and for all I know they may be perfect for the job; I'm just saying that cooking roms and porting Android and don't have much in common in terms of knowledge and experience necessary for success.

It's similar to asking your surgeon to perform an engine transplant on your car.

Re: Should the chefs start helping Android?
 

I'm not saying they will be able to do it either. I'm just saying that out of all of us, the cooks are probably the more technically inclined and coule therefore, probably, offer the most help.

Re: Should the chefs start helping Android?
 

Re: Should the chefs start helping Android?
 

You failed to detect my sarcasm, sir.

Re: Should the chefs start helping Android?
 

I can say, as an htc hero user who came from a blackjack 2/vogue/diamond, that android is far more stable than ay of my windows phones were. My hero has a 528 mhz processor and, even while running multiple apps at the same time with the htc sense framework running in the background, is still pretty snappy.

More on the subject, this question is both irrelevant and unrealistic. That's like asking windows xp programmers to help modify ubuntu kernel structures. Just because you are a dev doesn't mean you can develop for everything. The chefs at this point have made their choice of platform.

As for this, i'm sure there are chefs that, no matter how much time they spent with android, still couldn't get their hands dirtier than i do in android. I'm not trying to say that i'm the shit and know everything about android, but it just makes sense to me. The way windows mobile works has never seemed logical or efficient to me, so i could never really wrap my head around it's math. Android, on the other hand, is very tailored to the way i think and i can therefore delve deeper than a lot of people much faster.

Re: Should the chefs start helping Android?
 

oh, you're talking about returns? in that case, that's an htc issue, not winmo or android specific, and we can extend that luck to you too, not just me or anyone else. I bought a tp2 at launch and remember how many people were 8itching about issues while mine was fine (same with tp1). Many people returned their tp2s that first month. I still use my original tp2 and i haven't returned my original evo either.

It's the same with every htc phone. Some have issues, some don't. So your reliability argument doesn't hold water just because your bro had to return it a couple times. There's proof all over the tp2 forum that it's not anymore "reliable" than android devices.

PS: a lot of android users still use winmo devices on other lines, so it's not about hating, it's just opinions. When people, who actually have android devices along with their winmo devices, see threads about android on a winmo forum, of course they're going to take a look and say their 2 cents. Now if they dont even own a windows phone anymore, that's a different story

Re: Should the chefs start helping Android?
 

I just had to throw my 2 cents in with this, I got my TP2 Sept. 30th 09. Its been rock solid for me hardware wise, Ya I have had my quirks here and there with the software but I have been a WM user for so long that it was not anything new. Each user is going to experience differences with there hardware. Some are power users who work the phone to death, some are people that beat there phones to hell and back, there are users that use the phone as just that a Phone. there are user's out there that take very good care of there phone's and baby them really well (I would fall under that category).

goes back to that saying one man's garbage is another man's treasure. Each is to his own and be happy that we have the choices that we do in this day in age.

Re: Should the chefs start helping Android?
 

How does every Android thread eventually turn into a WM vs Android opinions and preferences? More importantly, where are all the SERO people????

Re: Should the chefs start helping Android?
 

I think Sprint had the last few SERO hold outs offed. They were costing too much money! :-$

My opinion on the whole thing. I've used the touch pro2 and htc hd2 and played with the samsung Moment.
This whole speed thing is ridiculous. My TP2 was faster than my daughters ipod touch and the moments I have played with. This is using my own cooked ROM and SPB MS. I will agree that sense is a problem on the tp2.

Now on my HD2, I am running energy's ROM (23569) with sense and cht and the thing just blazes. Yes apps take a few seconds to open. That is the case with all phones unless they are minimized in the background. Even the vaunted iphone/ipod touch takes time to open apps, it just gives you a pretty screen to stare at while it does it, instead of a spinning wheel.

It comes down to preference. It is nice to use some of the same programs for the last several years. I'm not against android, but I also don't understand the popularity. I think it is for the closet iphone fanboys. In public they bash the iphone, but secretly wanted one all along. Android is the compromise.

I switched to the hd2 for WinMo, the hardware specs and honestly, t-mobile's data speeds blow sprints out of the water. It should hold me over till the second gen wp7 devices come out and then I'll decide where to go.