New Sprint FAQ at BAW - Sprint admits problems
 

Some interesting notes:
- Sprint considering a beta test program
- Basically acknowledge that 2.17 doesn't fix BT and roaming completely
- Essentially say that Mogul should have had more memory

http://forums.buzzaboutwireless.com/...thread.id=2550

I'm sorry, but those Sprint folks must really be clueless when it comes to customer service, this one is a beauty:

"5) Are all Bluetooth Headsets compatible with the Mogul? No, Bluetooth headsets are not universally compatible with all handsets. Therefore, issues a user may encounter with a Bluetooth headset may not be attributable to the handset."

Ok... they just stated for the record that not all BT headsets will work with the Mogul. That's a big admission. Fine. So I'm a customer with a Mogul reading this... and my next obvious response is... "OK... SO WHERE IS THE LIST OF COMPATIBLE HEADSETS???"

<shakes head in disbelief>>

99
 

Unfortunately, I think that this is a hoax.

Unfortunately, it's real. The username on the BAW forum is unique to a Sprint employee/department, the same ones who posted the information and release time frame on the 2.17 ROM.

LOL, TBA............................................... ................ in Q4 08.:rolleyes:

It's real.

Although it's good to see Sprint communicating with its customers, my sense around the message is 'damage control'.

They are saying (1) 2.17 doesn't really fix BT and roaming problems adequately, (2) our testing doesn't work so we may use you guys as beta testers, (3) we don't know which BT headsets work and why others don't work, (4) Mogul doesn't have enough memory for WM6, ....

It's nice to see apparently honest communication, but the content of the message disturbs me. I think they know the Mogul is a cluster***, but they don't know how to fix it.

Yeah...I think the more important question is what are they going to do about it? Duh bluetooth and roaming aren't completely fixed. Duh there's not nearly enough memory in the thing. So what? What are they going to do about it and when are they going to do it? It's too late for the phone. Even if they fix the software, there's still not enough memory and there never will be. There's no way this phone is worth 1/5th of that paid by people who were screwed for full price. What is Sprint going to do for those people they raped over a pda that sucks? They'd better do something. They'd better do it soon. And they'd better start choking up some answers even sooner. Getting out of the contract is cheap compared to the full price of the Mogul. Just goes to show that you can't polish a turd.

Any GPS experts out there that can translate "Advanced User Plane and Autonomous GPS functionality will be added in the next ROM upgrade" into English for me? Does autonomous GPS mean real GPS, not aGPS? A quick Google search leads me to think so.

oh boy, i start to feel that Mogul is non-fixable at all

what does it mean "should have more memory", will new Rom add more memory to Mogul? or will HTC/Sprint recall Mogul?

Nope, means they took so long to develop the MS 6 OS that the phone memory wasn't taken into consideration when they needed to shove the phone out to sea. Sorry about our luck.

Consolation, starting to see a lot of Touch issues on BAW.(Misery lovin' company)

Seems like Sprint's being relatively forthright about the situation. A lot of companies wouldn't issue such a candid announcement.

sounds to me like Sprint is trying to sooth out a class action lawsuit!!

I would bet my grandpa's welfare check that sprint is going to leave us Mogul users out in the sea with a broken boat with no intent for repairs or recalls.

It's impossible, of course, for a ROM upgrade to add memory.

A recall is unlikely, IMO.

I think Sprint was saying "if you want more memory, buy a new phone now (Touch) or in the future".

Yeah, it most likely is a "sorry, we screwed up. bye now" message. In which case I enact my two step plan:

1) Go anywhere else. No more nickle-n-diming me because I paid a ton for a piece of junk they dare call a pda. Back to T-Mobile, AT&T, whatever. Anywhere but Sprint. They need me a whole lot more than I need them.

2) Get a Blackberry. RIM knows how to make a decent pda that works which is a lot more than I can say for HTC who has yet to make one that doesn't have some kind of serious problem or another.

I love my Titan and I'm sticking with it.That said I do miss my BlackBerry But I don't miss paying that BB bill.

FOr crying out loud people.... Grow a brain! With the gazillions of BT accessories out there yes your going to have some compatability issues. No one device is compatable with every single BTT out there.

LOL if this brought about a birth of a "CDMA/+Rev.A Tilt" to replace the Mogul for all current & future purchases, then that would be cake.
Or at least a perfected ROM + free 128MB RAM memory upgrades vouched by Sprint, via HTC.

But unfortunately I just so happen to be awake right now. :/

I'm hoping to cure the memory itch via PPC Techs, 75/128MB is a power-users dream.
Its $130 I'm ready to cough up after the Rev. A ROM release is deemed stable.

Someone is doing mem upgrades on the titan now?

There have been posts here claiming that ppc techs say a RAM upgrade isn't possible, valid or not I don't know. There are bt issues with this phone, there have been bt issues with EVERY device I've owned! Some didn't affect me, but they were there. Up until 2.17, I was running WM5 and the phone worked great with some slight bt and battery life issues. If the lack of RAM is so bad, maybe Sprint/HTC should look into developing a WM5 ROM. OTH, I switched to 2.17 and so far my phone is working really well so maybe there is life in the WM6 world after all. I commend Sprint on their candor. Asking for beta testers is something they should have done long ago, as should all the telco's. There would be far less issues with these devices if the telcos opened up the walled garden gates a bit and let in some fresh air!

Lets face it, the average user who mainly uses the built in features of the phone is not going to have many problems. The "power user" who wants their device to do everything imagined instantly is never going to be happy with any device currently on the market or probably ever on the market. We have to learn to revel in our own misery!

Follow this scenario and see if you can "grow a brain".

You are absolutely right there are many permutations of BT accessories and BT phones.
You are absolutely right that there will be compatibility issues based on the thousands of combinations possible.

Now.... is it the customer's responsibility to test for all those permutations to find a compatible device? How much time, money, and effort is reasonable to expect of the customer to invest? Is it one hour? One day? Weeks? Months? Well?

Sprint has a testing lab. They have R&D money to support any given product launch. It might cost them about $5000 in materials and about $4000 in labor to buy about 50 different BT headsets, test them, and either say yes or no on compatibility. Publish the list, case closed.

Sure, Sprint should do that, but it's probably not going to happen. On the other hand, we have the resources to pool our knowledge and experiences in this forum and assemble a useful list of BT devices and information about how well each model works with the Mogul. This has been done nicely in these forums for other PPCs/Smartphones, but I'm not sure it's really been done comprehensively for the Mogul, even though the Mogul is probably the quintessential example of a device that is crying out for such a resource.

If such a thread exists already, it might be a good idea to make it a Sticky. But the closest thing I've find to what I'm talking about is this thread:
http://forum.ppcgeeks.com/showthread.php?t=5221&page=19

Very nice article. I hope the Touch gets GPS soon. For some reason i think they will clamp down on a True GPS Stand alone feature and just give us the suscription based service. DAmn........

Maybe, but the Moto Q9c on Sprint has "open" GPS on it. You can use Google Maps, Live Search, etc. No hacking needed.
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Back to the other issues in this thread...

BT is a finicky standard, but don't let HTC off the hook completely. I think Motorola devices have shown how to do BT right and lots of other devices do have better implementations.

My guess: HTC cheaps out on BT radios, like Palm used to do. Software solutions (i.e. Firmware/Roms) can only go so far to alleviate the repercussions of that choice.

Still, overall...this Sprint interaction with the community is *very good*. I've learned more about Sprint in the last few weeks than in 10 years, so I hope they continue this sharing of information and interaction.

Years ago I had a SonyEricsson phone that worked flawlessly with every bluetooth device I ever threw at it. It never once missed a beat. Even my old T-Mobile MDA was a magnitude better than this as it worked just fine with my Motorola headset, GPS, laptops and whatever else I paired it with. All these years of making PDAs and after three failed systems for this phone alone and HTC still can't get this thing to stay connected to a headset I've used with several other phones without a problem. What's their excuse? I'd really like to hear it because I could use a good laugh. There is a bluetooth standard which is why all those devices have worked so well with every phone I've ever owned up to the Mogul. It's been around for a while, too. Did anyone bother reading it? Were they high when they read it? Was the Mogul an intern project for undergrads? I might give HTC the benefit of the doubt if bluetooth was the only problem but what about roaming problems? Or that the phone has half the memory it needs to run itself decently, let alone anything else? Or that DirectDraw sucks and streaming video that uses it is barely watchable on the best of days? No, it should work with everything in my house just like other far less expensive phones have and I think you're aiming the pointless insults in the wrong direction.

Can you please point me to the place in this thread where anyone said they expect every device to be "compatable [sic] with every single BTT [sic]"? I don't recall myself or anyone saying that.

I requested PPC Techs to as they specialize in it. I wasn't promised anything but they did say since it was requested "Alot" they would see.

No - just someone's wishful thinking.

My Touch supports my nXZen 6000 BT headset with outstanding audio quality. And my Touch switches in/out of roaming without locking. If my Mogul did the same in each case, I'd be a very happy camper......

I don't (nor does anyone, nor does the known universe) have gazillions of BT accessories - having my Mogul work as well as my Touch would be perfectly cool with me!

Mogul memory upgrade
 

Lets makes something really clear to the forum readers. You cannot upgrade the ram in your mogul. nor can anyone else.nor can sprint.

All of the newer thinner phones use SoC. SoC(System on a Chip) is the future of phones because it integrates everything on to one chip. The processor, memory, compact flash, and radio, are all integerated onto one System on a Chip. That is why you cant upgrade the ram or cf storage, because you would have to cut open the chip to get to it.

This is also why sprint cant add more memory and release another mogul. They would have to upgrade to the next version of the chip, that has more features and different hardware requirements (more power for instance) that would have to be retested and debugged ,etc.

It does not, however, exclude the possibility that HTC and Sprint could (not will and not should) release a new Mogul hardware revision that has more memory built in to it, although the move is highly unlikely. Alas, we are probably stuck until the next generation of this phone is released.

Honestly, I don't see what the fuss is about about memory. Maybe it's my frugal use of HTC Task Manager (X-Button) 2.0, and maybe it's my cautious limits of how much I do at one time (like limiting how much mail I sync), but I almost never have out-of-memory issues. My phone sits about the 60-65% used mark when idle and 70-75% used when I'm "busy".

The best thing they could do is release the next firmware with task manager built-in.

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Now, as for the Bluetooth issues, as Malatesta commented on, the BT standard is pretty craptacular in the first place. Each revision isn't even compatible with other revisions (ie. 1.0 is not generally compatible with 1.1 or 2.0, etc), so it's not surprising that even implementations in the 2.0 family would be quirky. The best thing users can do is look for headsets that are natively 2.0 and test or research them before buying.

SOC!?

Shit... So much for this then as this Magician has a BGA chip:


HTC Magician upgraded from 64MB-128MB RAM
http://www.pocketpctechs.com/main~unit~HTC_Magician-280~area~upgrades~action~updateunit.htm

http://www.pocketpctechs.com/Images/...ade/BGAMEM.jpghttp://www.pocketpctechs.com/Images/...ade/BGA-IR.jpg

Yes this is by far the sweetest things you will ever see happen to a PPC, it can't be impossible even if it is SOC as PPC Techs do enact the reprogramming of it, although the Apache is infact listed as unsupported & thats the only CDMA device that has been officially marked as "unsupported". The Titan has the same pending messages as the some others on there.
The support is driven by user requests so those that do have it were in high demand so there could be more that are in the same boat as the Apache.

Hmm I'll await PPC Techs answer before I bank on possibilities.

The SoC though is the MSM-7500. An "upgraded version" in terms of RAM would not have more features--it'd just be the same MSM-7500.

The HTC Touch (Sprint Vogue) is such a device--same internals as the Mogul, same SoC chipset, just more memory, but no extra features. The GSM Touch, 1st gen had the same situation--not enough RAM. They rolled out a newer version with more RAM recently, but same internals.

No doubt some "testing" would be required by Sprint, but honestly that is no different than a firmware upgrade.

It would be quite easy for Sprint to release a Mogul with Hardware Revision B, which would have more RAM in it--very reminiscent of the Treo 700w vs 700wx situation.

I don't know about adding memory to existing device--I know that would be "out" for Sprint or HTC as I've never heard of such an upgrade.

Being possible and being feasible for average users are two entirely different things. Even as a tech veteran of 18 years, I wouldn't feel comfortable soldering a new chip into a device, and I would never encourage a typical user to do so.

I competely disagree with everyone that says that the mugul has enough memory. I found out the wrong way.I am a graphic designer and I visit alot of 3d sites.one thing about those sites is that they are heavy memory hogs due to the fact that they show high resolution images.so everytime I headed to those sites my mogul browser would shut down. this happened only when i visited those sites. Anyways, it turned out to be the low ram that wasrashi the browser. I kept an eye on my memlry one day while i visited one site and noticed immidietly my eam was running out.when ut hit 98 % then (bam!) its shut down. Culprit found. I said "good bye mogul" I sWaped for a Touch.Now im happy.

I doubt the average user could even afford the tools to do it right, among other difficulties:

*The cost of the right tools to use are in the thousands (i.e $5,000est)
*You could possibly blind yourself
*Destroy the PPC (very, very small movements is all it takes)
*Plus, due to the nature of the chip you would need to know how to reconfigure the software afterwards.

For all of that, buying a PPC with 128MB RAM would be cheaper & uhh safer.

You are completely incorrect. Bluetooth is a completely defined standard with well defined "profiles". If a manufacturer's headset does not work, then it is completely on the shoulders of the manufacturer. The problem is either going to be that the manufacturer did not 100% comply with the profile specification OR there is a problem physically with the device in that perhaps it is unable to communicate reliably across the entire frequency spectrume bluetooth operates on, or some other aspect within the manufacturer's contol, NOT the handset manufacturer. This would be the equivalent to saying that particular wifi router (let's go with 802.11g) doesn't associate with every wifi card out there. It's going to be a problem for those that "add a feature" which stretches the specification, or doesn't comply to it exactly.

I can pretty much guarantee you that if the manufacturer complied 100% with the radio and profile specification, it would work properly.

Michael

I sell tons of BT headsets every day. Not all headsets work well with all phones. i.e. motorola headsets suck with Treo smart phone but work great on other phones. I have yet to fund a bt headset that works great on every lg, motorola, palm, htc, sanyo, samsung, and blackberry. There will always be a poor conection somewhere along the line.