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-   -   Where are all the Window 7.5 phone users (http://forum.ppcgeeks.com/showthread.php?t=148090)

EyeB 03-18-2012 12:10 PM

Re: Where are all the Window 7.5 phone users
 
I also don't see how security holes won't come... It's actually part of the mobile OS waiting to be exploited in my opinion :S

If an app maker makes a phone book app, it'll need access to it. And Google/Apple/MS all allow this because they want to promote people to make apps for phones. The difference is that the app makers mostly doesn't use this access with ill intent. But people will once it becomes profitable for them :S

WP7 is "malware" free like how macbook/linux are "malware" free (they aren't really...) but because MS holds lions share of PCs, they get hit more. WP7 is now the underdog and claims what macbook/linux users did in past...

DavidinCT 03-18-2012 01:04 PM

Re: Where are all the Window 7.5 phone users
 
As to the question to the OP.....

Everyone is not at this site. This site has been proven for most of the mods to have Android or iPhoneys. They should change the name to AndroidiPhonegeeks.com as PocketPC/WIndows Mobile/WP7 is what created this site and they dont care about it any more.

XDA, WPcentral, 4pda are better WP7 sites. They have many posts every day about Windows Phone 7. I have not been here in 2 weeks and no more than 1-2 new threads.

I was here every day, 2-3 posts a day at least, now, this will be my first post in about a month.

If you love Android, good for you, if you love your iPhoney, good for you. We love WP7 and still feel it's the better of the OSes. And I have used the iPhone and Android for a while.

To each their own but, If you came to this site for Windows Phone 7 info or discussions, you will be very disapointed...

Sorry PPCgeeks, That is how I feel about it and watching for the last year, that is the way it is...

eric12341 03-18-2012 01:12 PM

Re: Where are all the Window 7.5 phone users
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by lnando84 (Post 2173064)
I see you're still up to your old non-sense huh eric? I don't think you clearly comprehend the meaning of what a troll is so here's the definition from wikipedia for ya..

Troll (Internet):
In Internet slang, a troll is someone who posts inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, chat room, or blog, with the primary intent of provoking readers into an emotional response or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.

Sorry to burst your bubble(had to steal that one rrjskj :laughing6:) but that "@_rootlinux malware included." comment definitely falls under this category, as you were trying to get a reaction from rootlinux, so I 100% agree with fixxxer on calling you a troll!! This thread being in the wp7 section has nothing to do with anything and def doesn't give you a free pass to be a d-bag here yet again!! I mean seriously dude..there's no need to turn everything into a wp7 vs android or t-mobile vs sprint battle..just give it a rest already!! I thought your previous excuse was cause you had a bad 2011..now what gives??

Edit: be sure to check out the cage..left ya something;-)

@lnando84 I'm not up to any old nonsense, all I was trying to say was that android has security issues. I guess that's a crime around these parts.

eric12341 03-18-2012 01:17 PM

Re: Where are all the Window 7.5 phone users
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by DavidinCT (Post 2173092)
As to the question to the OP.....

Everyone is not at this site. This site has been proven for most of the mods to have Android or iPhoneys. They should change the name to AndroidiPhonegeeks.com as PocketPC/WIndows Mobile/WP7 is what created this site and they dont care about it any more.

XDA, WPcentral, 4pda are better WP7 sites. They have many posts every day about Windows Phone 7. I have not been here in 2 weeks and no more than 1-2 new threads.

I was here every day, 2-3 posts a day at least, now, this will be my first post in about a month.

If you love Android, good for you, if you love your iPhoney, good for you. We love WP7 and still feel it's the better of the OSes. And I have used the iPhone and Android for a while.

To each their own but, If you came to this site for Windows Phone 7 info or discussions, you will be very disapointed...

Sorry PPCgeeks, That is how I feel about it and watching for the last year, that is the way it is...

@DavidinCT yea I'm usually at xda and WPCentral too but I still come here first. Xda has done a great job cleaning out the wp7 bashers, don't see as many anymore.

rootlinux 03-18-2012 03:27 PM

I have nothing against WP7.
All I was doing was answering a question about choices.
Currently WP7 doesn't allow all the features Android does.

As for not being a WP7 site.
Well we need more people here using it.
Am not up on the phone myself because I don't have one.
The reason is, it is not an open platform ( same as iphone) therefore can't imo be as customized as Android.
How many custom roms are there for it?
Do any custom roms add anything new or useful?

If a user is looking for a new device and needs features that only another os offers, why would we point them to a device that won't do what they need?

In any case, this thread has gotten way off topic. :)

If there isn't anything useful to be added to the topic I think we should take any personal disputes to pms or the cage.

eric12341 03-18-2012 09:55 PM

Re: Where are all the Window 7.5 phone users
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by rootlinux (Post 2173107)
I have nothing against WP7.
All I was doing was answering a question about choices.
Currently WP7 doesn't allow all the features Android does.

As for not being a WP7 site.
Well we need more people here using it.
Am not up on the phone myself because I don't have one.
The reason is, it is not an open platform ( same as iphone) therefore can't imo be as customized as Android.
How many custom roms are there for it?
Do any custom roms add anything new or useful?

If a user is looking for a new device and needs features that only another os offers, why would we point them to a device that won't do what they need?

In any case, this thread has gotten way off topic. :)

If there isn't anything useful to be added to the topic I think we should take any personal disputes to pms or the cage.

there are a few custom roms for the first Gen devices. They pretty much unlock the device which can allow for homebrew apps and regedits,but I am not interested in them as my HD7 stock does everything I need it to do and runs as great as I need it to.

rootlinux 03-19-2012 12:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eric12341 (Post 2173126)
there are a few custom roms for the first Gen devices. They pretty much unlock the device which can allow for homebrew apps and regedits,but I am not interested in them as my HD7 stock does everything I need it to do and runs as great as I need it to.

Thanks eric,
I may try to find a device to play with. Just so I can have some hands on.

dtrush 03-19-2012 01:40 PM

Re: Where are all the Window 7.5 phone users
 
I'd agree that if a user needs a specific function they should jump on the platform that works for their needs. It's a trade-off balance between performance & function that has to be weighed in.

I personally need:

Rock solid performance (no force closes, no need to manage the @^#& OS's memory manually)
No degradation of performance (not slowing down from data overload)
Close to perfect Exchange translation calendar & contacts (no additional apps needed)
Music player that works right with phone calls, incoming text's etc.

My wife's EVO 4G has problem after problem software wise that is a huge cause for concern. A friend of mine has a Galaxy S II and seems to run O.K.
But for me, the whole app in, app out search for data it pretty old and outdated. The integrated features and slickness of the way a phone should work is found in Windows Phone 7. I need speed for the EVERYDAY tasks, not the one-off occasional uses for a phone. To some people like me their phone is a tool meant to be used to communicate quickly and efficiently. Seen the Smoked by Windows Phone challenges?

Yes, I don't spend much time on these forums because I'm not always needing to find solutions to fix my WP7 problems. If I had to use an Android phone for work I'd be posting up a storm over in that forum(s). I'm not currently doing anything on the other WP7 forums but I do listen to the WPCentral podcast. I suspect there haven't been any new PPCgeeks podcasts because there's no time left for those who used to do it. They must be wasting it wallowing in extensive research and support for their personal Android devices.

rootlinux 03-19-2012 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dtrush (Post 2173212)
I'd agree that if a user needs a specific function they should jump on the platform that works for their needs. It's a trade-off balance between performance & function that has to be weighed in.

I personally need:

Rock solid performance (no force closes, no need to manage the @^#& OS's memory manually)
No degradation of performance (not slowing down from data overload)
Close to perfect Exchange translation calendar & contacts (no additional apps needed)
Music player that works right with phone calls, incoming text's etc.

My wife's EVO 4G has problem after problem software wise that is a huge cause for concern. A friend of mine has a Galaxy S II and seems to run O.K.
But for me, the whole app in, app out search for data it pretty old and outdated. The integrated features and slickness of the way a phone should work is found in Windows Phone 7. I need speed for the EVERYDAY tasks, not the one-off occasional uses for a phone. To some people like me their phone is a tool meant to be used to communicate quickly and efficiently. Seen the Smoked by Windows Phone challenges?

Yes, I don't spend much time on these forums because I'm not always needing to find solutions to fix my WP7 problems. If I had to use an Android phone for work I'd be posting up a storm over in that forum(s). I'm not currently doing anything on the other WP7 forums but I do listen to the WPCentral podcast. I suspect there haven't been any new PPCgeeks podcasts because there's no time left for those who used to do it. They must be wasting it wallowing in extensive research and support for their personal Android devices.

I personally have zero issues on my EVO.
I was actually off the forums for about a year because it runs so well. It all has to do with custom roms.
I have five solid roms in rotation on my sd card. All running flawless completely from sd.

I can't comment on how well the WP runs because I don't have one.
Reading comments on the forums I see there are some things it can't do. If those things are not an issue for the people using it then it probably is an awesome device.

I am actually glad WP does run so well because we need good compitition in the market.
Force companies to keep getting better and bring new stuff to the table.

Winmo 6.5 will always be one of my favorites.
Was thinking about getting a WP till the EVO came out.

Both devices have some give and take I guess.

As for podcasts, there is talk of getting it going again.

kyderr 03-19-2012 08:09 PM

Re: Where are all the Window 7.5 phone users
 
Nice to see I got some action. I really love WM6.5 with custom ROM. I'm just starting to get some problems with Synchronization, I can see the Daylight savings time will be a problem, and I need a new phone before the back falls off this one. But I cannot loose Several features. I will keep reading and learning. Perhaps WP8 will be my solution.

eric12341 03-19-2012 09:12 PM

Re: Where are all the Window 7.5 phone users
 
@kyderr, what features do you want?

rootlinux 03-19-2012 09:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kyderr (Post 2173236)
Nice to see I got some action. I really love WM6.5 with custom ROM. I'm just starting to get some problems with Synchronization, I can see the Daylight savings time will be a problem, and I need a new phone before the back falls off this one. But I cannot loose Several features. I will keep reading and learning. Perhaps WP8 will be my solution.

You could get an older Touch Pro II probably pretty cheap to have around.
I read people running Android from sd.
You could have 6.5 and Android.
Best of both worlds. :)

Edit: Forgot you had a tp2. :)

austin420 03-21-2012 10:06 AM

Re: Where are all the Window 7.5 phone users
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by kyderr (Post 2173236)
Perhaps WP8 will be my solution.

wow. that has to be a joke. i dont think ive ever heard anything so funny in my life.

eric12341 03-21-2012 01:37 PM

Re: Where are all the Window 7.5 phone users
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by austin420 (Post 2173462)
wow. that has to be a joke. i dont think ive ever heard anything so funny in my life.

WP8 is going to be a gamechanger, whether you think it's funny or not.

kyderr 03-21-2012 01:52 PM

Re: Where are all the Window 7.5 phone users
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by austin420 (Post 2173462)
wow. that has to be a joke. i dont think ive ever heard anything so funny in my life.

Not really sure why say it that way. Windows Mobile has been my solution with a custom ROM with a fairly high level of reliability for some time. It's not perfect, but with the ample assistance of the people on this forum, I have been able to get my phone to do everything that I need it to. A lot more than Verizon ever allowed me, and more than most people do with their phone. It does not have the ease of use of perhaps WP7 or IOS, but It's highly customizable and gives me what I need. I suspect if I had better hardware to run it on, it would even be better....

kyderr 03-21-2012 01:57 PM

Re: Where are all the Window 7.5 phone users
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by eric12341 (Post 2173483)
WP8 is going to be a gamechanger, whether you think it's funny or not.

I agree that the WP8 will be game changer along with windows 8. It's why I asked for a forum to be created and I started a thread here:

http://forum.ppcgeeks.com/general-wi...ml#post2173478

(Not so much for you Eric1234, You found it already. )

rootlinux 03-21-2012 01:58 PM

Hard to speculate on WP8 when it isn't out yet.
If they were to open it more like WM6.5 was it could definitely be a game charger. Personally I don't see them going that direction but if they look at how popular it was compared to WP7 they may make the changes.

austin420 03-21-2012 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kyderr (Post 2173485)
Not really sure why say it that way. Windows Mobile...

I didn't say anything poor about windows mobile. I was just bemused as wp7 destroyed the platform. Wm6.1 was a gamechanger. Windows phone 7 tok away almost 3/4 functionality. Wp8 isn't going to be able to save it. Too little too late.


Sent from my SPH-D700 on the PPCGeeks App

kyderr 03-21-2012 02:15 PM

Re: Where are all the Window 7.5 phone users
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by austin420 (Post 2173491)
I didn't say anything poor about windows mobile. I was just bemused as wp7 destroyed the platform. Wm6.1 was a gamechanger. Windows phone 7 tok away almost 3/4 functionality. Wp8 isn't going to be able to save it. Too little too late.


Sent from my SPH-D700 on the PPCGeeks App

I do not agree. I think Windows is the standard for Desktop platforms, and if they have a good solid desktop share, and they release a Phone O/S that integrates to that, the uptake will be large. My friends love their android phones, but they are not as married to them as some might think. They can get buggy and laggy, and they do not always work. IOS always works, (At least that is the perception) but it's so locked, many advanced users reject it. Something middle of the road with advantages from both camps could do really well. Blackberry held the business market with enterprise connectivity, but their grip is slipping, and seamless integration with Encryption to Exchange is a powerful draw. If WP8 pulls that off and captures consumer market at the same time......

eric12341 03-21-2012 02:41 PM

Re: Where are all the Window 7.5 phone users
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by austin420 (Post 2173491)
I didn't say anything poor about windows mobile. I was just bemused as wp7 destroyed the platform. Wm6.1 was a gamechanger. Windows phone 7 tok away almost 3/4 functionality. Wp8 isn't going to be able to save it. Too little too late.


Sent from my SPH-D700 on the PPCGeeks App

wrong again, nothing wrong with taking a clear start and implementing things bit by bit to ensure a stable experience. since MS was successful with creating a stable and functional experience in WP mango using this approach they are ready to go all out for Apollo. Can't say the same for google which still has lag issues in ICS. Even iOS5 has lag issues on the older hardware. WP is already gaining steam the Nokia lumia and HTC radar are the best selling phones on T-mobile and according to a recent poll more people are willing to buy a Nokia for their next phone, WP is already outselling Symbian in the UK. The US will be soon to catch up (since we always tend to be behind Europe).

austin420 03-21-2012 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eric12341
the Nokia lumia and HTC radar are the best selling phones on T-mobile and according to a recent poll more people are willing to buy a Nokia for their next phone

Did you just make that up of the top of your head?
Nevermind. I see I'm dealing with fanboys. Sorry. Didn't mean to come in here and im part a little reason. Sorry true believers. Ill leave your little thread now.



Sent from my SPH-D700 on the PPCGeeks App

gTen 03-21-2012 04:44 PM

Re: Where are all the Window 7.5 phone users
 
The latest article I found lists as followed for T-Mobile:

#1- Galaxy s2
#2- Amaze 4G
#3- Lumia 710 4g

eric12341 03-21-2012 08:27 PM

Re: Where are all the Window 7.5 phone users
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by austin420 (Post 2173502)
Did you just make that up of the top of your head?
Nevermind. I see I'm dealing with fanboys. Sorry. Didn't mean to come in here and im part a little reason. Sorry true believers. Ill leave your little thread now.



Sent from my SPH-D700 on the PPCGeeks App

@austin420 ignore listed, good grief!

kyderr 03-21-2012 08:38 PM

Wirelessly posted (HTC_Touch_Pro2_T7373 Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 4.01; Windows CE; PPC)/UC Browser7.8.0.95)

I love a good discussion. What happened to just disagreeing and still talking about it.. Oh well.

eric12341 03-21-2012 09:24 PM

Re: Where are all the Window 7.5 phone users
 
it's him realizing that he was losing his argument and deciding to call us fanboys and then leave.

lnando84 03-22-2012 05:51 AM

Re: Where are all the Window 7.5 phone users
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by eric12341 (Post 2173530)
it's him realizing that he was losing his argument and deciding to call us fanboys and then leave.

Kudos eric!! Go ahead and chalk that up as a win LOL especially since all he was doing was giving kyderr an option that would work for what he was asking. Then you do what you do best and start a raucous!! He clearly is tired of the pointless argument and you take it as if you were right.. you're even more delusional than I originally thought!!

rootlinux 03-22-2012 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gTen (Post 2173511)
The latest article I found lists as followed for T-Mobile:

#1- Galaxy s2
#2- Amaze 4G
#3- Lumia 710 4g

Yup

http://www.squidoo.com/top-10-t-mobile-phones

Cnet current reviews of best tmo phones doesn't list one WP.

http://reviews.cnet.com/best-tmobile-phones/

Not bashing wp or anything but where was it found that two out of three top selling tmo devices are wp?

rootlinux 03-22-2012 02:49 PM

Oddly enough PCworld has the top 10 phones as all Android.
Granted it was back in January.
http://www.pcworld.com/reviews/colle...ll_phones.html

I just don't see any proof wp is making huge headway in the market.

If someone can post real proof then I will accept it.
Making claims without proof to back it is pointless.

Not bashing anyone but I believe in facts.

eric12341 03-22-2012 03:45 PM

Re: Where are all the Window 7.5 phone users
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by rootlinux (Post 2173643)
Oddly enough PCworld has the top 10 phones as all Android.
Granted it was back in January.
Top 10 Cell Phones | PCWorld

I just don't see any proof wp is making huge headway in the market.

If someone can post real proof then I will accept it.
Making claims without proof to back it is pointless.

Not bashing anyone but I believe in facts.

January was before the lumia 710 sales results were first reported here are some articles I found

Canaccord Genuity: HTC Radar and Nokia Lumia 710 selling well in USA, nearly 10 million Windows Phones to be sold in Q1 2012 | WMPoweruser

HTC Radar 4G is T-Mobile's 3rd Top Selling Phone (was since replaced by lumia)

The T-Mobile Lumia 710 is "exceeding expectations" according to Elop | wpcentral | Windows Phone News, Forums, and Reviews

austin420 03-22-2012 03:58 PM

Re: Where are all the Window 7.5 phone users
 
the first article is all predictions.
the second article claims that the radar is number 3 best selling phone on tmo, but the last article says, and i quote...
Quote:

As of today, the Lumia 710 is T-Mobile's third best selling device--a level we have never seen reached for any Windows Phone in the US.
makes me wonder if i can even trust any of these articles.
a lot of misinformation coming from this one today.

rootlinux 03-22-2012 04:39 PM

First link is all predictions.

Second link is from 2011.
So it doesn't say anything useful to us today.

Third link just says excedded expectations. What does that mean?
Could just mean they sold more than they thought.

Nothing proves the claims that two of the top three are wp.

gTen 03-22-2012 05:46 PM

Re: Where are all the Window 7.5 phone users
 
Radar 4g was #3 in nov2011 - dec 2011, as of latest results which I am guessing are jan/feb Radar 4g dropped and now Lumia is #3.

http://www-bgr-com.vimg.net/wp-conte...d-dec-2011.jpg

rootlinux 03-22-2012 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gTen (Post 2173671)
Radar 4g was #3 in nov2011 - dec 2011, as of latest results which I am guessing are jan/feb Radar 4g dropped and now Lumia is #3.

http://www-bgr-com.vimg.net/wp-conte...d-dec-2011.jpg

That is what I am seeing.
Device 1 and 2 are Android.

eric12341 03-22-2012 09:18 PM

Re: Where are all the Window 7.5 phone users
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by rootlinux (Post 2173663)
First link is all predictions.

Second link is from 2011.
So it doesn't say anything useful to us today.

Third link just says excedded expectations. What does that mean?
Could just mean they sold more than they thought.

Nothing proves the claims that two of the top three are wp.

didn't read more closely at it. Here

Quote:

As of today, the Lumia 710 is T-Mobile's third best selling device--a level we have never seen reached for any Windows Phone in the US. Likewise, the device is in the same spot for user satisfaction with a 4.7 stars (out of 5) from 115 reviews (interestingly, the HTC Radar is number two).
Quote:

Originally Posted by rootlinux (Post 2173695)
That is what I am seeing.
Device 1 and 2 are Android.

3rd place is good,its progress.

gTen 03-22-2012 10:21 PM

Re: Where are all the Window 7.5 phone users
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by eric12341 (Post 2173701)
didn't read more closely at it. Here

Quote:

As of today, the Lumia 710 is T-Mobile's third best selling device--a level we have never seen reached for any Windows Phone in the US. Likewise, the device is in the same spot for user satisfaction with a 4.7 stars (out of 5) from 115 reviews (interestingly, the HTC Radar is number two).

You mean the user satisfaction rating? personally I wouldn't trust those too much. Simply because unlike say sprint which requires you to actually be a sprint member to write a review for some reason T-mobile allows anyone with with an email regardless of whether you own the phone or not to vote. Not saying that its wrong, just saying that the numbers can easily be manipulated.

fixxxer2012 03-22-2012 10:24 PM

Re: Where are all the Window 7.5 phone users
 
yet verizon and sprint have seemingly jumped off the wp7 bandwagon.

EyeB 03-22-2012 10:51 PM

Re: Where are all the Window 7.5 phone users
 
I'd believe it, but sadly the tmobile stores (3 of them near me) had no windows phone to demo :S I got to see it at a ATT store when I checked out the note :S

Can't say that I'm not impressed with it, but I also can't say I'd want one (I'm not into social media so a "connected" phone isn't for me so much as a "tinkering" phone) I can't say that windows phone isn't good to mess with, but I don't have one and well, can't really sit down and tinker with it while the store rep is standing next to you...

eric12341 03-22-2012 11:36 PM

Re: Where are all the Window 7.5 phone users
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by gTen (Post 2173711)
You mean the user satisfaction rating? personally I wouldn't trust those too much. Simply because unlike say sprint which requires you to actually be a sprint member to write a review for some reason T-mobile allows anyone with with an email regardless of whether you own the phone or not to vote. Not saying that its wrong, just saying that the numbers can easily be manipulated.

I mean the sales, the article I quoted mentions both sales and ratings.

Here's another:

http://www.tmonews.com/2012/03/t-mob...for-lumia-710/

Quote:

Originally Posted by fixxxer2012 (Post 2173712)
yet verizon and sprint have seemingly jumped off the wp7 bandwagon.

Verizon maybe , sprint not so much according to this article:

Sprint Windows Phone with Qualcomm LTE chipset is entering testing phases, tip insiders

Quote:

Originally Posted by EyeB (Post 2173717)
I'd believe it, but sadly the tmobile stores (3 of them near me) had no windows phone to demo :S I got to see it at a ATT store when I checked out the note :S

Can't say that I'm not impressed with it, but I also can't say I'd want one (I'm not into social media so a "connected" phone isn't for me so much as a "tinkering" phone) I can't say that windows phone isn't good to mess with, but I don't have one and well, can't really sit down and tinker with it while the store rep is standing next to you...

T-mobile doesn't have any demo units out, you have to ask a rep to see one.

austin420 03-22-2012 11:49 PM

Re: Where are all the Window 7.5 phone users
 
IF THAT ARTICLE IS ANY INDICATION OF POWAH, IT SAYS IT WILL SHIP WITH A SNAPDRAGON SOC. LE BOO.
YES IM YELLING.

orangekid 03-30-2012 04:15 PM

Re: Where are all the Window 7.5 phone users
 
I don't see how WP7 could have destroyed a platform that was already obsolete. WM6.x had like 1% marketshare if that, I bet WP7 has already overtaken it. MS knew this was a 5 year plan. How many G1s sold when Android first came out, it was a joke. Android? what the hell was that? an ugly keyboard phone that was slow and buggy and was nothing compared to the iphone....

I am like REALLY excited about Windows 8, think about it, it will be across all platforms, ARM versions WP8, man it looks really cool. And WP7 is really sleek. I prefer Android, but WP7 is lightyears better than WM6.x, and I was a flashing junkie! I loved cooking ROMs on my diamond, but it cannot be denied how un-user-friendly WM was.

It will also raise the bar for Jellybean and Key Lime Pie as well iOS6 and 7 because they know that MS is not going away.


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