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-   -   Why is iPhone not considered a smartphone? (http://forum.ppcgeeks.com/showthread.php?t=132206)

orangekid 08-27-2010 04:24 PM

Re: Why is iPhone not considered a smartphone?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by schettj (Post 1926137)
Well, anyone who used a computer before 1996 had plenty of experience connecting modems (you know, those whacky things that connect your computer to your phone) scanners, printers, and whatnot via serial cables. Heck, you could even connect your TeleVideo terminal that way, so you could, you know, interact with your computer.

Ah, good times.

So, no, I and anyone else over 35 might not noyersayin'


yeah, the first computer I got had a 14.4 modem and I thought I was big pimpin. But it wasn't long after I was on a 56k then went to college and they had a T1 and it was cable after that.

I still remember that crazy modem connecting static "dong dong" more static sound when it was connecting :)

good times indeed.

testacon 08-27-2010 08:38 PM

Re: Why is iPhone not considered a smartphone?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by NIKKG (Post 1922000)
Why do people on this site state the iPhone is not a “real smartphone” but WinMo, Android supposedly are?

With my Jailbroken Iphone 4, I can:

1. Tether through wifi and use it as a wifi hotspot free

2. Customize the lock screen with weather, calendars etc.
3. Run all sorts of great apps and games and can multitask
4. There are all sorts of legal and illegal apps and hacks
5. Use GPS, Music Player, Bluetooth, Wifi, 3G
6. Take pictures and Hi-Def videos and have a built in flash
7. Browse web sites just as fast and good as on my laptop
8. Built in email and calendar syncs with my outlook at work
9. On top of all that, it still makes phone calls and text messages, plus I get great ATT service.

To me, this is not only a smartphone, its like a laptop replacement. My laptop just collects dust now, I don’t see what’s the point of turning on a laptop when I can do almost everything right on my iphone with that beautiful hi-def screen.


My turn...

First and most important where's Flash 10.1? Without it, no it's NOT a laptop replacement, HTML 5 is simply not there yet. Every website I go to sucks because I can't see flash videos, except youtube linked ones.

While I think that the iPhone is a fantastic piece of hardware and software the potential to be a real smartphone is there, the simple fact is that Apple dictatorship hampers this from being a reality.

The fact that "Steve Jobs" is a smartass, doesn't make the iPhone smart!

If I create an app that "I" need and Apple doesn't approve it, it's not the phones fault it's Apples. I should be able to install ANYTHING that I want/need once I drop my hard earn dollars on it. Whether I want to buy it or create it myself. Once you jailbreak the iPhone I think it becomes a true smartphone but then leave it to Apple again to break the jailbreak with an update (which is dumb), leaving you with a less then smartphone.

Antenna gate issues aside, I thank Apple for it's impact on the smartphone world. If Microsoft didn't bail on WM, and Apple was more open and not with AT&T, Android probably never would have stood a chance. I rather have Google "spying" on me then someone telling me what I can and can't have.

So my defination of smartphone is simply, "Is it smart enough to do what I want it to do?", and unless its jailbroken and truely usable, my answer is NO...

It still wouldn't stop me from buying one though--IF it wasn't bundled with AT&T, and carried on Sprint. My wife would just love the simplistic menu systems...

testacon 08-27-2010 08:49 PM

Re: Why is iPhone not considered a smartphone?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by schettj (Post 1926137)
Well, anyone who used a computer before 1996 had plenty of experience connecting modems (you know, those whacky things that connect your computer to your phone) scanners, printers, and whatnot via serial cables. Heck, you could even connect your TeleVideo terminal that way, so you could, you know, interact with your computer.

Ah, good times.

So, no, I and anyone else over 35 might not noyersayin'

Wow, I must really be old then, my Commodore 64 had a 300 baud modem, it couldn't even dial on it's own. I had to wait till the phone rang and disconnect the rj11 cord out of the handset and plug it into the back of the modem before the BBS hung up on you.

BooDaddy 08-27-2010 10:57 PM

Re: Why is iPhone not considered a smartphone?
 
Oh heres one.. what about the modems that had the handset cradles? You dialed up the ISP on the actual phone you talk on, then lay the handset in the cradle. THats some old skool junk right there!

fozmsu 08-27-2010 11:42 PM

Re: Why is iPhone not considered a smartphone?
 
Why do people say the iphone isn't a smartphone because Apple is too strict? That has little to do with it. Other people try knocking it by saying you have to jailbreak it to be able to do smartphone stuff. That just means it is in fact capable. I unlocked every WM phone I had and flashed it to get it to work the way it should have out of the box. What's the difference? Saying the iphone isn't a smartphone because it doesn't support flash means that there wasn't really any smartphones until about a month ago. I really wish WM would just die. It turns you into a crack addict with all the constant ROMs coming out everyday. You can't stop. I would load several ROMs onto my SD card before work everyday just so I could flash via SD all day at work. It affected my family, friends and work. Thank God for that intervention. From now on, I'm staying clean. Nothing but iOS or Android for me.

NIKKG 08-28-2010 03:13 AM

Re: Why is iPhone not considered a smartphone?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by fozmsu (Post 1926618)
Why do people say the iphone isn't a smartphone because Apple is too strict? That has little to do with it. Other people try knocking it by saying you have to jailbreak it to be able to do smartphone stuff. That just means it is in fact capable. I unlocked every WM phone I had and flashed it to get it to work the way it should have out of the box. What's the difference? Saying the iphone isn't a smartphone because it doesn't support flash means that there wasn't really any smartphones until about a month ago. I really wish WM would just die. It turns you into a crack addict with all the constant ROMs coming out everyday. You can't stop. I would load several ROMs onto my SD card before work everyday just so I could flash via SD all day at work. It affected my family, friends and work. Thank God for that intervention. From now on, I'm staying clean. Nothing but iOS or Android for me.

Dude your so right! That's why I dumped my TP2, the only activity I did on it was flash roms, it was like that everyday like a drug addict needing another hit. What a sad OS Winmo had become, they need to take that old dog out and shoot it. Its not a surprise everyone jumped on Android, the only ones left are the sero users.

gTen 08-28-2010 03:46 AM

Re: Why is iPhone not considered a smartphone?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by NIKKG (Post 1926777)
Dude your so right! That's why I dumped my TP2, the only activity I did on it was flash roms, it was like that everyday like a drug addict needing another hit. What a sad OS Winmo had become, they need to take that old dog out and shoot it. Its not a surprise everyone jumped on Android, the only ones left are the sero users.

And those that..need it for CDMA/GSM functionality.and those on legacy plans... But to be fair WM kinda needed some decent hardware and maybe some actual drivers...then it may have not been so bad :/

oh US Robotics..you bring back so much memories..I remember upgrading my 133mhz Dell pc(this was before anyone knew what dell was and they made pcs in the US..it took them 2 weeks to build it and they had a step by step on how they were building it each day) with a US Robotics 56k modem...whatever happened to them anyways :/

shaggylive 08-28-2010 04:39 AM

Re: Why is iPhone not considered a smartphone?
 
I used to have a whole series of USR modems between 2400 and 56000. We had some tall white pine's in the yard and they always got hit. I told dad God wanted me to upgrade since lightning kept taking them out.
fyi surge strips are meant for power, NOT communications. most lightning surges enter the house from phone, cable, sat. I've never seen a surge strip actually stop a surge thru the phone/network/cable jacks and the equip ends up fried too.

back on topic,, iphones are dumb.

schettj 08-28-2010 09:56 AM

Re: Why is iPhone not considered a smartphone?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by BooDaddy (Post 1926578)
Oh heres one.. what about the modems that had the handset cradles? You dialed up the ISP on the actual phone you talk on, then lay the handset in the cradle. THats some old skool junk right there!

Yep. Hayes 300 baud acoustic coupler modems ROCKED. Yep, that's 30 characters per second, baby! Top THAT!

(and you were calling into your local BBS, not an ISP. At that time, your ISP choices were Nada or Nil. Compuserve ('77) and AOL (83) didn't come online until much later. Hell, I remember when phone companies threatened to charge extra for "excessively long" local calls, because people would spend hours dialed in)

http://www.hanselman.com/blog/conten.../mus_128_3.jpg

NIKKG 08-28-2010 12:39 PM

Re: Why is iPhone not considered a smartphone?
 
I started on a 386 SX 16 mhz pc with two 5 1/4 floppys and a 20 gig hdd. Back than i had a 1200 modem to connect to local bbs's before the internet. Than had Prodigy later on a 2400 modem, it was like the closest thing to the internet back than. I also remember paying 1000 for the first 1 gig drives coming, the capacity was considered unfillable back than. Those were the days, i was strictly a DOS guy until win95 came out.

testacon 08-28-2010 01:41 PM

Re: Why is iPhone not considered a smartphone?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by fozmsu (Post 1926618)
Why do people say the iphone isn't a smartphone because Apple is too strict? That has little to do with it. Other people try knocking it by saying you have to jailbreak it to be able to do smartphone stuff. That just means it is in fact capable. I unlocked every WM phone I had and flashed it to get it to work the way it should have out of the box. What's the difference? Saying the iphone isn't a smartphone because it doesn't support flash means that there wasn't really any smartphones until about a month ago. I really wish WM would just die. It turns you into a crack addict with all the constant ROMs coming out everyday. You can't stop. I would load several ROMs onto my SD card before work everyday just so I could flash via SD all day at work. It affected my family, friends and work. Thank God for that intervention. From now on, I'm staying clean. Nothing but iOS or Android for me.

And how is Apple any better? You jailbreak your phone, then Apple comes out with a new iOS and you upgrade, breaking that jailbreak. You impatiently wait and wait for the new jailbreak and the cycle continues on and on again. I flashed my phone, maybe, once every few months. It all goes toward that leading edge vs bleeding edge, after a few hundred people test it for me, only then do I reap in the benefits.

Maybe not classifying the iPhone as a smartphone is too extreme of a statement. It's just a lame smartphone (because of Apple's policies) that you have to keep screwing with it to make it usable. So I'm kind of confused why your bashing WM when Apple is really not any better. Sure there is 100,000+ apps but I really don't need 99.9% of them, just most of the ones that they refuse to approve.

See as previously stated a "smartphone" should be smart enough to run ANYTHING that was programmed for it. Apple's smartphones are only smart enough to run anything that THEY say can run on it. If you cripple a smartphone abililty to run programs, how can you justify calling it a "real" smartphone?

testacon 08-28-2010 01:56 PM

Re: Why is iPhone not considered a smartphone?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by shaggylive (Post 1926801)
I used to have a whole series of USR modems between 2400 and 56000. We had some tall white pine's in the yard and they always got hit. I told dad God wanted me to upgrade since lightning kept taking them out.
fyi surge strips are meant for power, NOT communications. most lightning surges enter the house from phone, cable, sat. I've never seen a surge strip actually stop a surge thru the phone/network/cable jacks and the equip ends up fried too.

back on topic,, iphones are dumb.

Do you remember that when the 28.8K Sportster came out and they released the upgraded 33.6k model almost a month afterwards and you qualified for a free PROM and they mail you that with an extractor tool? Then I was all the rage when I bought that $400 USR Courier V.Everything modem, that thing was huge. It cut down a day or so from my week long downloads that happened those days.

My best friends Dad had every computer from the beginning to now. I played with 12", 8" 5 1/4 and finally 3 1/2 floppy drives. I remember the first two games I played called Invaders which was a Space Invaders clone and Snake.

Good times...<Sniff Sniff>

fozmsu 08-28-2010 06:07 PM

Re: Why is iPhone not considered a smartphone?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by testacon (Post 1927049)
And how is Apple any better? You jailbreak your phone, then Apple comes out with a new iOS and you upgrade, breaking that jailbreak. You impatiently wait and wait for the new jailbreak and the cycle continues on and on again. I flashed my phone, maybe, once every few months. It all goes toward that leading edge vs bleeding edge, after a few hundred people test it for me, only then do I reap in the benefits.

Maybe not classifying the iPhone as a smartphone is too extreme of a statement. It's just a lame smartphone (because of Apple's policies) that you have to keep screwing with it to make it usable. So I'm kind of confused why your bashing WM when Apple is really not any better. Sure there is 100,000+ apps but I really don't need 99.9% of them, just most of the ones that they refuse to approve.

See as previously stated a "smartphone" should be smart enough to run ANYTHING that was programmed for it. Apple's smartphones are only smart enough to run anything that THEY say can run on it. If you cripple a smartphone abililty to run programs, how can you justify calling it a "real" smartphone?


That's just it. It is smart enought to run anything. You just need to abuse Apple's policies to use some of it, but it can still do it. It's not any different than WM in that aspect. Hell, when I first got the HTC mogul it couldn't send mms without a hack. The stance from HTC was that it wasn't their problem and Sprint had the balls to say it wasn't capable even thought it was the top of the line phone they had at the time. Someone then came up with a work around and Sprint followed up by contacting the developer and making them stop. I believe they even demanded the source code for the program so they could block it out. All under the threat of lawsuit. Of course they came out with an official update that enabled mms and all was well after. That is not much different than the Apple practices you are complaining about. And by the way, even though I was unable to send or receive picture mail, Sprint still forced me to pay for it for the privelage of owning the Mogul. The business practices of the manufacturer and the service provider don't make the phone any dumber or smarter, just more challenging to use. And flashing is like sex. If you aren't always thinking about it or doing it or doing it feverently, you're probably not doing it right. \\:D/ Flashing WM is a drug. You better believe that one. As far as the old computers go, the first one we had was a Texas Instruments. I believe it was like T100 or something. I am sure one of you remembers better than I did. I remember copying programs for games out of magazines and saving them to casette tapes on a recorder that was plugged into it. Memories are a bit fuzzy considering I was like 10 at the time. Where's the emulator for that?

schettj 08-28-2010 09:41 PM

Re: Why is iPhone not considered a smartphone?
 
Whippersnappers. 8080s rule. CP/M Forever!

gTen 08-29-2010 04:32 AM

Re: Why is iPhone not considered a smartphone?
 
Personally though, for myself I actually view an iPhone as a dumb phone..but the main reason is not of what it is capable but what is represents...I personally do not like Steve's concept of "Dumbing things down" and not giving a choice...While it may be easy to learn..smartphones should have a learning curve...why?

Because thats just it life has a learning curve...I personally fear for future generations in general where everyone is following apple on making things so dumbed down that even a retard could use it...

In the future I hope for technology would progress at a good pace as it has been in the last 20-30 years..but I have a feeling if things like this continue, we will hit a barrier not because we can't go farther but the next generation is too stupid to actually accomplish something...

Don't get me wrong I'm not saying checking your email should require you to solve a millennium math problem...But a smartphone has to be a device that promotes choice and has a learning curve which then allows for more functionality.

I mean even speaking for myself I find myself more lazy and loosing IQ with all this dumbing down going on in general...now imagine generations growing up in this dumbed down environment...I am even hearing schools making things easier for kids and etc and it personally has me worried...I mean am I the only one worried about this? :/

I mean do we really want our future generations to turn into this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uAcvIqcpHrI

schettj 08-29-2010 08:19 AM

Re: Why is iPhone not considered a smartphone?
 
LOL - iPhone, it's just too damn easy. That's definitely a unique take.

What you're actually describing is progressive disclosure in a user experience. It's something that is applied consistently in the iOS UX. Hand an iPhone to someone who's never used it, and in about two minutes they will have mastered 70% of the functionality. That's sufficient to effectively use the device, but it isn't the end of the learning curve.

Anyway, this is now firmly into the realm of the ridiculous. Do you think smart phones should only use CLI?

> call 555-1212
Calling....
Ringing...
Answered> Tell "bob" hello
"Hello, Bob!"
Answered> Hangup
>

Now THATS a MANLY interface!

fozmsu 08-29-2010 12:37 PM

Re: Why is iPhone not considered a smartphone?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by gTen (Post 1927775)
Personally though, for myself I actually view an iPhone as a dumb phone..but the main reason is not of what it is capable but what is represents...


And that is just fine with me because you're expressing your opinion and you can't argue opinion. Just wish more people would handle it the way you do. No matter what side of the Steve is an asshat fence you stand on.

redd214 08-29-2010 08:12 PM

Re: Why is iPhone not considered a smartphone?
 
wow, some of these answers are straight off the wall lol! like i said earlier, I personally consider it a smartphone, just not the one for me. I dont wanna get too deep into this one but honestly, some of the reasons you guys are giving for why its not are just downright ridiculous!

nite732 09-07-2010 06:07 PM

Re: Why is iPhone not considered a smartphone?
 
Well I do own a Iphone and I do not consider it a real smartphone, is because everything needs an app. My first audiovox ppc-6700 could go online and do what I needed it to do. The iphone has come along way, but until I can be at work go online get something that I need download it to wherever and send it bluetooth, to someone else phone that needs it and then the Iphone is not it. I know about jailbreak and ssh, but the ability to share information with the least possible steps is a qualification of a smartphone to me. You can,t even send ringtones or share contact's with bluetooth. If I replace my phone I have to go to the store or order it then sync it to itunes to get all my information. A smartphone I can be sitting in the store back-up all my info to my memory card and put it in the new phone and keep going. That's what's up.

schettj 09-07-2010 08:19 PM

Re: Why is iPhone not considered a smartphone?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by nite732 (Post 1937721)
the ability to share information with the least possible steps is a qualification of a smartphone to me.

Neat. What color is the sky in your world?

nite732 09-07-2010 10:25 PM

Re: Why is iPhone not considered a smartphone?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by schettj (Post 1937922)
Neat. What color is the sky in your world?

It's actually colorless but the reflections change now and then.

Certs 09-07-2010 10:34 PM

Re: Why is iPhone not considered a smartphone?
 
This thread is funny.

Call it a smart phone, call it a dumb phone, call it a media phone, call it a hot dog, I'm still going to be one of the millions of iphone owners. And I HATE hot dogs.

What Apple did was simple. It looked at Windows Mobile and found it's flaws. And it made sure their os wouldn't have the same flaw- Instability. That means a controlled environment, like blackberries. If someone is against that then their are plenty of alternatives for you.

Certs 09-07-2010 10:37 PM

Re: Why is iPhone not considered a smartphone?
 
As far as Flash goes, I think Apple is very ignorant with it. And I mean in general, even safari on my MacBook Pro is terrible with flash. It's as if they refuse to acknowledge it. I think the Adobe CEO may have gotten drunk and tried sexting Steve's wife.

shaggylive 09-07-2010 11:27 PM

Re: Why is iPhone not considered a smartphone?
 
well, I don't think I want a colorless reflective sky, but I miss the old party lines, talk a bout sharing easy.. no dial, just pick up the phone.

what I find the most odd about the whole flash thing is that Adobe was one of very few software developers for apple over the decades, why draw the line at flash? wouldn't banning java make more since? java sucks.

NIKKG 09-08-2010 01:30 PM

Re: Why is iPhone not considered a smartphone?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by shaggylive (Post 1938104)
well, I don't think I want a colorless reflective sky, but I miss the old party lines, talk a bout sharing easy.. no dial, just pick up the phone.

what I find the most odd about the whole flash thing is that Adobe was one of very few software developers for apple over the decades, why draw the line at flash? wouldn't banning java make more since? java sucks.

I agree, Java sucks, I got a malicious file installed just my visiting PB. The file completely hijacked my computer and wanted me to purchase its anti-virus to make itself go away. I had to format the whole computer to get rid of it. I'm also avoiding PB and visiting only the Demon site for my downloads.

schettj 09-08-2010 11:07 PM

Re: Why is iPhone not considered a smartphone?
 
The problem with flash is its owned by Adobe... while HTML5 is an open standard. So it's better.

testacon 09-10-2010 12:14 PM

Re: Why is iPhone not considered a smartphone?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Certs (Post 1938058)
This thread is funny.

Call it a smart phone, call it a dumb phone, call it a media phone, call it a hot dog, I'm still going to be one of the millions of iphone owners. And I HATE hot dogs.

What Apple did was simple. It looked at Windows Mobile and found it's flaws. And it made sure their os wouldn't have the same flaw- Instability. That means a controlled environment, like blackberries. If someone is against that then their are plenty of alternatives for you.

What they did is remove CHOICE, my choice to install an alternative browser that supports flash. You DON'T have to install flash, I on the other hand want it, Apple has NO right to keep it from me. Some other company did that about a decade ago until several governments came in and slapped them around calling them a monopoly. I await the 3 million dollar a day fines for non-compliance when the FTC and EU come "a knocking" on their door. Let's see how c0cky Apple is then.

Certs 09-10-2010 05:05 PM

Re: Why is iPhone not considered a smartphone?
 
That's fine, and a reason why Android is also popular. If you want Flash there are many options for you. Apple still thinks Flash will hurt the performance of their phone, so they haven't allowed it. I would like Flash on my phone but I have chosen that an iPhone without Flash is better for me than an Android phone with it. Sure its not the popular choice around here but so be it.

Based on what I've read recently it seems Apple has loosened the reigns a bit with 3rd party add-ons, so we'll see. Here's the article I'm talking about

http://www.engadget.com/2010/09/09/a...tions-will-al/

spectheintro 09-11-2010 04:08 AM

Re: Why is iPhone not considered a smartphone?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by testacon (Post 1940535)
What they did is remove CHOICE, my choice to install an alternative browser that supports flash. You DON'T have to install flash, I on the other hand want it, Apple has NO right to keep it from me. Some other company did that about a decade ago until several governments came in and slapped them around calling them a monopoly. I await the 3 million dollar a day fines for non-compliance when the FTC and EU come "a knocking" on their door. Let's see how c0cky Apple is then.

Are you seriously comparing Microsoft's blatant anti-competitive practices with Microsoft Windows to Apple's decision to not allow Flash on its phones? The two aren't even remotely comparable.

Microsoft--threatened OEMs, spent millions purchasing and immediately shutting down competitors, had tons of backdoor dealings to ensure its platform was the only one being sold in most markets.

Apple--has made a cell phone and decided not to allow certain software on it. Has done nothing to prevent any other cell phone manufacturers from supporting the software, has not attempted to halt the sale of all other cell phones, has threatened no one to my knowledge.

Seriously, get your facts straight. Apple's being arrogant and douchebag-esque with its iOS platform. Microsoft was criminal. The difference between the two is astronomical.

EDIT: Just go read this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Microsoft. And then try and claim that what Apple has done even comes close. Microsoft falsified evidence in a federal court. I'm honestly shocked some of its executives aren't doing hard time. I love Windows 7 and I've supported MS platforms for years, but I call a spade a spade.

shaggylive 09-11-2010 11:39 AM

Re: Why is iPhone not considered a smartphone?
 
you don't think apples closed system and tight reins on software is anywhere close?

quoted from the linked wiki
Microsoft was not really making any money from Internet Explorer, and its incorporation with the operating system was due to consumer expectation to have a browser packaged with the operating system. For example, BeOS comes packaged with its web browser, NetPositive, and Mac OS X with Safari. Instead, he argued, Microsoft's true anticompetitive clout was in the rebates it offered to OEMs preventing other operating systems from getting a foothold in the market

really the m& antitrust more closely resembles the kind of B/S we have to put up with from the carriers and subsidized phones.

testacon 09-11-2010 03:36 PM

Re: Why is iPhone not considered a smartphone?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by spectheintro (Post 1941432)
Are you seriously comparing Microsoft's blatant anti-competitive practices with Microsoft Windows to Apple's decision to not allow Flash on its phones? The two aren't even remotely comparable.

Microsoft--threatened OEMs, spent millions purchasing and immediately shutting down competitors, had tons of backdoor dealings to ensure its platform was the only one being sold in most markets.

Apple--has made a cell phone and decided not to allow certain software on it. Has done nothing to prevent any other cell phone manufacturers from supporting the software, has not attempted to halt the sale of all other cell phones, has threatened no one to my knowledge.

Seriously, get your facts straight. Apple's being arrogant and douchebag-esque with its iOS platform. Microsoft was criminal. The difference between the two is astronomical.

EDIT: Just go read this: United States v. Microsoft - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. And then try and claim that what Apple has done even comes close. Microsoft falsified evidence in a federal court. I'm honestly shocked some of its executives aren't doing hard time. I love Windows 7 and I've supported MS platforms for years, but I call a spade a spade.

Um, did Microsoft at ANY time prevent you from installing ANY programs or disallowed one? No--then case closed. I admit Microsoft was 100% wrong during that time and deserved the fallout they got for "business bullying", but shame on the general public for not looking at other programs or exercising their choices. At no time during the browser regime had any issues installing Netscape or an alternative browser. Can't really say the same for Apple can you now?

Programmers spend weeks and months making programs following Apple's incomplete guidelines for FIVE years only to get denied for no REAL reason, and you're going to cry fowl because the FTC has a problem with this and investigating Apple's practices. Boo freaking hoo! I'm sure Microsoft started out just like this in the beginning.

Now let's look at Apple's "relationship" with AT&T. After contract or buy out, can you easily take your 100% paid for phone to TMobile without hacking? No? Then again I asked what's the difference between Apple and Microsoft's practices. The only reason Apple caved overseas was from threat again from a foreign government. Apple's on borrowed time right now, as they aggravate the wrong people more and more each day. The US smackdown is rapidly approaching, and I'm impatiently waiting for it.

spectheintro 09-11-2010 04:38 PM

Re: Why is iPhone not considered a smartphone?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by testacon (Post 1941719)
Um, did Microsoft at ANY time prevent you from installing ANY programs or disallowed one? No--then case closed. I admit Microsoft was 100% wrong during that time and deserved the fallout they got for "business bullying", but shame on the general public for not looking at other programs or exercising their choices. At no time during the browser regime had any issues installing Netscape or an alternative browser. Can't really say the same for Apple can you now?

Except they did. If you'd read the provided link, you'd see that Windows 95 made installs of foreign browsers extremely unintuitive. (They falsified evidence to try and show otherwise, but were caught in the act.) Not only that, but Microsoft also forced OEMs to NOT package competitor's browsers when distributing their computers. So yes, quite literally, Microsoft did prevent me from installing foreign browsers: it exercised (illegally) market power to keep alternatives from me in a purchased machine, and also purposely designed their OS to be anti-foreign browser. You can say MS and Apple are sort-of similar on the latter; the former is a totally different category of behavior.

Quote:

Programmers spend weeks and months making programs following Apple's incomplete guidelines for FIVE years only to get denied for no REAL reason, and you're going to cry fowl because the FTC has a problem with this and investigating Apple's practices. Boo freaking hoo! I'm sure Microsoft started out just like this in the beginning.
I at no point "cried fowl" for the FTC investigating anything. I merely pointed out that what MS did is in a completely different ozone layer than the things you're decrying Apple for.

Quote:

Now let's look at Apple's "relationship" with AT&T. After contract or buy out, can you easily take your 100% paid for phone to TMobile without hacking? No? Then again I asked what's the difference between Apple and Microsoft's practices.
Easy. Apple is not bullying AT&T and every other carrier to not let you purchase any other phone. That difference enough for you? Apple is also not spending millions of dollars spreading false information about every other cell phone OS in the market. In short, Apple is not attempting to be a monopoly. That's the difference between Apple and MS.

If you don't like Apple, fine. Doesn't matter to me. But get your perspective straight. Apple and MS are in completely different leagues. Just because you feel more aggrieved by Apple's slights doesn't mean they're comparable to the morass of anti-competitive behavior MS engaged in. We'll never know how much innovation and creativity was stifled by MS's practices.

fozmsu 09-11-2010 06:30 PM

Re: Why is iPhone not considered a smartphone?
 
Testacon hates Apple just to hate them. And from the looks of it, it's because he can't get Apple sponsered porn. Get over it. You troll the Apple forum to hate on them. End of story.

shaggylive 09-12-2010 01:25 AM

Re: Why is iPhone not considered a smartphone?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by spectheintro (Post 1941757)
Except they did. If you'd read the provided link, you'd see that Windows 95 made installs of foreign browsers extremely unintuitive. (They falsified evidence to try and show otherwise, but were caught in the act.) Not only that, but Microsoft also forced OEMs to NOT package competitor's browsers when distributing their computers. So yes, quite literally, Microsoft did prevent me from installing foreign browsers: it exercised (illegally) market power to keep alternatives from me in a purchased machine, and also purposely designed their OS to be anti-foreign browser.

well, I didn't need to read the link to know that I was using netscape and aol just fine on win95. they didn't prevent anything except the full and complete removal of iexplorer. which at the time was made some sense on thier part as the internet was still very young, and it was based upon explorer (the file browser)

while were on ancient history and back on topic, iphone's dumb. :geek:

spectheintro 09-12-2010 02:10 AM

Re: Why is iPhone not considered a smartphone?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by shaggylive (Post 1942139)
well, I didn't need to read the link to know that I was using netscape and aol just fine on win95. they didn't prevent anything except the full and complete removal of iexplorer. which at the time was made some sense on thier part as the internet was still very young, and it was based upon explorer (the file browser)

while were on ancient history and back on topic, iphone's dumb. :geek:

I used Netscape too, but MS didn't make it easy on me. Honestly, I'm not too up-in-arms about the browser thing--I think IE should come packaged with Windows. What bothered me was that MS took it another step and actively tried to prevent any other browser from gaining a foothold.

Anyway, I've got my own list of beefs with Apple. I actually develop for them, and trying to navigate their developer portals is like chewing salt and lemon-juice laced glass.

testacon 09-12-2010 10:19 AM

Re: Why is iPhone not considered a smartphone?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by spectheintro (Post 1941757)
Except they did. If you'd read the provided link, you'd see that Windows 95 made installs of foreign browsers extremely unintuitive. (They falsified evidence to try and show otherwise, but were caught in the act.) Not only that, but Microsoft also forced OEMs to NOT package competitor's browsers when distributing their computers. So yes, quite literally, Microsoft did prevent me from installing foreign browsers: it exercised (illegally) market power to keep alternatives from me in a purchased machine, and also purposely designed their OS to be anti-foreign browser. You can say MS and Apple are sort-of similar on the latter; the former is a totally different category of behavior.



I at no point "cried fowl" for the FTC investigating anything. I merely pointed out that what MS did is in a completely different ozone layer than the things you're decrying Apple for.



Easy. Apple is not bullying AT&T and every other carrier to not let you purchase any other phone. That difference enough for you? Apple is also not spending millions of dollars spreading false information about every other cell phone OS in the market. In short, Apple is not attempting to be a monopoly. That's the difference between Apple and MS.

If you don't like Apple, fine. Doesn't matter to me. But get your perspective straight. Apple and MS are in completely different leagues. Just because you feel more aggrieved by Apple's slights doesn't mean they're comparable to the morass of anti-competitive behavior MS engaged in. We'll never know how much innovation and creativity was stifled by MS's practices.

What's the point of looking through a ancient wiki article if I used every version of MS OS from DOS 3.3 to Windows 7 and had no problems ever with installing or using Netscape? I have recently read that after installing a Plus pack with Windows 95 it may have had some conflicts with Netscape. The problem is as soon as Plus was released, I installed it, hated it (bloatware), and just reinstalled Windows so maybe this specific problem I avoided. But all Windows 95 versions, retail, oem A, B and C ran Netscape without issue for me so, I'm not sure what you want me to see.

I also said that I was against the business bullying as well that Microsoft occasionally engages in but Apple is also engaging in them now, with selective app approval and not being able to leave AT&T. I also welcomed the fines MS got for getting too big for their britches years ago and that's why I see Apple now become what MS was all those years ago.

testacon 09-12-2010 10:33 AM

Re: Why is iPhone not considered a smartphone?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by fozmsu (Post 1941834)
Testacon hates Apple just to hate them. And from the looks of it, it's because he can't get Apple sponsered porn. Get over it. You troll the Apple forum to hate on them. End of story.

I love having words put in my mouth. I've said in multiple post that I have two iPods both a 60Gig classic video model and a 64 Gig iPod touch, last revision. What I hate is the ability to not have access to flash if I want to watch a video that is on some 90% of the sites I visit.

I have also said they have the potential to be "great" devices if the shackles of oppression removed via jailbraking, but the problem with that is flash needs to be supported by Apple so that it integrated into the OS better and not some quick hack that was thrown together in someone's basement.

So if I hate them just to hate them then why do they have about $800 from my pockets. I hate them because I can't use my devices to the full potential I should be able. I hate them because I have enough free will that I don't like my decisions be made for me.

All I know is that if I am wrong in my arguments, then why is the Federal Government asking the same questions that I am? I guess we will all see who is right as more and more evidence comes into light. If Microsoft can get slammed with fines, so can Apple.

PriYankee 09-12-2010 01:55 PM

Re: Why is iPhone not considered a smartphone?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by testacon (Post 1942291)
What I hate is the ability to not have access to flash if I want to watch a video that is on some 90% of the sites I visit.

I agree with this, I had 2 iphone's before I entered the blackberry world, and while they are Great phones & provide great features, i did not like the fact that i could not watch a video on a site if i needed to. Of course my blackberry is not near perfect but it does, after major buffering, allow me to watch a video if need be. IF the iPhone did have flash, it would be so much more convenient.

But those are just my 2 cents :geek:

fozmsu 09-12-2010 07:58 PM

Re: Why is iPhone not considered a smartphone?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by testacon (Post 1942291)
I love having words put in my mouth. I've said in multiple post that I have two iPods both a 60Gig classic video model and a 64 Gig iPod touch, last revision. What I hate is the ability to not have access to flash if I want to watch a video that is on some 90% of the sites I visit.

I have also said they have the potential to be "great" devices if the shackles of oppression removed via jailbraking, but the problem with that is flash needs to be supported by Apple so that it integrated into the OS better and not some quick hack that was thrown together in someone's basement.

So if I hate them just to hate them then why do they have about $800 from my pockets. I hate them because I can't use my devices to the full potential I should be able. I hate them because I have enough free will that I don't like my decisions be made for me.

All I know is that if I am wrong in my arguments, then why is the Federal Government asking the same questions that I am? I guess we will all see who is right as more and more evidence comes into light. If Microsoft can get slammed with fines, so can Apple.


Blah, hate, blah

jasonck08 09-12-2010 10:40 PM

Re: Why is iPhone not considered a smartphone?
 
Quote:

Why is iPhone not considered a smartphone?
Because people that buy the iPhone are not smart. :p

Kidding... Just poking some fun at the apple users...


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