Logic behind flashing phones multiple times
 

I'm an embedded developer / engineer of sorts, and I wanted to know why so many people suggest that flashing your phone several times with the same ROM will actually end in a better result... seeing as the microcontroller in the phone technically has a limited number of times that it can be flashed (which is well in excess of 100,000 times, conservatively), the same blocks are being flashed every time by any bootloader or programming algorithm, regardless of how many times the phone is flashed with the same ROM.

That said, is there someone here who has information that is definitively to the contrary from some authority (ARM, HTC, other) who can contradict this?

All I know is that if you flash your phone with a crappy ROM more than once, it'll still be garbage, slow, buggy regardless of how many times you do so, and no number of times flashed will make it other than what it was to begin with.

I won't mention names, but over at XDA there are lots of people who suggest that if the ROM doesn't work 'correctly' after the first flash, that you should flash back to a stock ROM, then to the custom one, etc to attempt to clear the air for the custom one that was crappy the first time.

Thoughts?

Re: Logic behind flashing phones multiple times
 

I think its a load of crap personally, I've never flashed back to stock, and I've never flashed more than once, and I've never had a problem... Whatever floats your boat.

But the people over at xda, if I remember, one of the people stated (this is as word for word as I can remember) "It is common knowledge that bits get stuck on a ROM chip, so flashing multiple times ensures that all stray bits on the ROM chip are cleared and you have a bug free experience"

But as I said, I think its a load of crap lol.

Re: Logic behind flashing phones multiple times
 

Nice to see that I'm not alone.

There's a car repair shop that I drive by daily on my way to work that likes to put catchy phrases on their reader board outside. The one they have up now states: "Why do the people who know the least know it the loudest?" :) I think that those who suggest that flashing your phone several times to get 'stuck' bits in flash memory inside of a microcontroller are merely shortening the life of the product, little by little, and helping others to do the same. :(

Thanks for chiming in. :D

Re: Logic behind flashing phones multiple times
 

No problem, off topic, but I have a similar place nearby where I live too. :P

Glad to see I wasnt the only one that thought flashing multiple times was a "dumb" idea. :)

Re: Logic behind flashing phones multiple times
 

Andrew did u get gps working yet.

Re: Logic behind flashing phones multiple times
 

Working on it daily :)
Check your pm's too :P

Also, yay! Over 100 posts now :D

Re: Logic behind flashing phones multiple times
 

Not all ROMs flash all things. I've flashed ROMs that left stuff still in place from the old ROM. So flashing stock is definitely advisable between ROMs. However, I have never flashed the same ROM multiple times, as that makes no sense at all. I've never had an ROM issues other that what I mentioned about some ROMs leaving stuff behind from the ROM before.

Re: Logic behind flashing phones multiple times
 

Yeah but thats what the hard reset after a flash is for, to get rid off everything left behind and restore it with the items from the ROM you just flashed.

Re: Logic behind flashing phones multiple times
 

All ROMS have to flash all things that are pertinent to the ROM, or they won't work. For example, it will flash contiguous blocks relevant to itself, and does not care about the blocks in excess of its own use. Since it only cares about (only knows about) the bits that are useful to it, the bits not modified are still of no consequence. As for radio only ROMs, my assumption is that the flash is divided up into regions with boundaries that are known to the developers, including space for the boot loader, main flash, and radio firmware, etc. Flashing back to a stock ROM should do nothing but give you ten or fifteen minutes less useful time while you wait.

Re: Logic behind flashing phones multiple times
 

But what if I have a custom ROM that doesn't modify the boot screens and the ROM I had before does modify the boot screens. When I flash the new ROM, I will be left with the old ROM's boot screens correct?

Re: Logic behind flashing phones multiple times
 

Yes this is true. By stuff left behind I thought you meant files on the internal memory. My bad.
But also, If the ROM you're flashing doesnt modify bootscreens but you're previous one did, flashing multiple times will do nothing to change the bootscreens.

Re: Logic behind flashing phones multiple times
 

Correct. For instance, the EnergyROM series does not flash a new bootscreen. While some may find this annoying, I use this to my advantage, because it allows me to retain my custom bootscreen in between each update of the ROM. A ROM image is capable of flashing any and/or all of the following: Stock SPL, OS, Boot Screen, Radio. Most custom ROMs only flash the OS. Quite a bit of customised ROMs flash the boot screen also. Some flash the radio to the "optimized version" but many do not. it is expected that if you know how to flash a ROM, you are fully capable of flashing whatever radio you wish to have on your phone, and many users, (such as myself), use a custom boot screen that saves 30s by not having to re-flash your custom boot screen, so many customized ROMs do not include a boot screen.

Re: Logic behind flashing phones multiple times
 

Ya, again, I see no reason to flash multiple times. I only see a reason to flash a stock ROM between custom ROMs if you want to be sure everything is reset to stock first and nothing carries over.

Re: Logic behind flashing phones multiple times
 

You're not all alone, I am the same way. There is no reason to keep re-flashing. In fact, you only have 10,000 times to flash a ROM, I could probably get that done in about 3 years. So, flashing a ROM multiple times does nothing but shorten you by at least 1/2.

Re: Logic behind flashing phones multiple times
 

Paying Omag to our forefathers back when this technique actually had the hardware to support the theory. Haven't needed to do this since the HTC Apache/Mogul days. The phones had extended ROM's that held the boot image, the device then copied them into "working" memory.

Nowadays, the phone memory is one. It's just 15-20 minutes of their lives...

Re: Logic behind flashing phones multiple times
 

By Omag do you mean homage? LOL, sorry couldn't resist.

Re: Logic behind flashing phones multiple times
 

Yeah. :) It's just one of those words I say alot, and not type very often...

Re: Logic behind flashing phones multiple times
 

Hi, my name is Brack and I'm a flash-o-holic. Here is what I've experienced. I love flashing different roms and testing them all out to see what I like best. I found that sometimes, not all the times when flashing something gets corrupt and the internet and incomming calls won't work. To solve this problem I flash back to sprint stock then run IOTA, then flash which ever custom rom I want and bang back in business. I'm not sure about flashing the same rom a couple time helps or not. I just know for a fact that flashing back to stock then flash the custom rom will cure some problems.
I'm not a techy or anything, this is just what I found in my flashing experience.

Re: Logic behind flashing phones multiple times
 

I have never once flashed a ROM multiple times. Don't see a need to. Then again, I never end up with the issues I read others complaining about. Most sound like either unreasonable expectations of the phone/ROM or user error. I flash once and things just work. If not, I move on to another ROM and/or wait for updates.

Re: Logic behind flashing phones multiple times
 

In on this. I think it's a load of BS too. I've been stuck on one dude's ROM for some time and it's the worst quality of any that I've experienced. The problem is, it's the only ROM I've every used that actually has the things to do what I want. So alot of the minor/annoying hiccups, bugs, etc., I deal with until the next version.

However, on multiple occasions, I have run into scenarios where my phone will suddenly decided to start hard-resetting itself. For a ROM that never touches the radio/boot screens, it sure causes alot of problems in those areas.

"Upgrading" the radio is such a pita considering what you have to deal with at customer support to get your phone working again.

Re: Logic behind flashing phones multiple times
 

You must be getting half wit csa's. When I've flashed a new radio in the past i've never had to wait on the phone more than a few minutes to get rid of the authentication problem.

Re: Logic behind flashing phones multiple times
 

You'll save yourself 15-20min when you encounter an error in your ROM if you just do a hard reset. Flashing back to stock, hard-resetting, flashing back to your desired rom followed by a hard reset is not nessecary. If the radio that you have installed is compatable, and you didn't error out during the flash process, just do a hard reset of whatever ROM you have installed. Any issues you have will almost certainly be resolved after a hard-reset. (center button, volume down, depress stylus to reset for 5-10s. Volume down to confirm system wipe, voume up to restart).

Re: Logic behind flashing phones multiple times
 

well... that's not entirely true. I've had several times where no amount of hard resets would get the phone working right. Only a flash to stock then to the updated rom would get it working again. Not sure of the logic behind it, but it seems to especially be true with 6.5.

Re: Logic behind flashing phones multiple times
 

yes I had that problem the other day with NFSFAN's 6.5 ROMs. I tried flashing back to older versions of his ROM but it would get stuck on the splash screen every time after the flash. I actually flashed back to an old Whosdaman 6.1 ROM and then flashed back to NFSFAN's ROM

Re: Logic behind flashing phones multiple times
 

Flashing the same ROM image multiple times is a load of crap. It is a digital device, not an analog connection, that is subject to interference or dropouts during transfer...it is an all or none process. If you can boot into the new ROM after you flash once, then you are done...doing it again just wastes time and double flashing is for the OCD/paranoid people. The second flash does not do anything extra that the first flash didn't already do.

Re: Logic behind flashing phones multiple times
 

Actually, it really does help.
Little tid bits of information get stuck behind from your programs folder, and a few other things. Sometimes, it will not cause problems, but for the most part,it really does help.
ESPECIALLY if you use a rom like NFSFAN's. He mods TONS of items throughout the entire phone, and that causes most of the problems when flashing to a new version.

I've lived by hard resetting, flashing 2-3times, and then good to go.
I've never had the problems that most people report on this website and xda.
If you read all of my posts, about 50% of them will be something along the lines of weird, I've never had this problem.
Also, another problem that occurs while flashing is having other programs running on your computer while you flash, it bogs down the RUU and can cause problems while flashing.

Just because it's suppose to cover all of the old information, doesn't mean it will.
Things don't always work as they are designed to, I mean, look at the U.S. Government. :D:D:D

Re: Logic behind flashing phones multiple times
 

For some reason when I go to edit, it deletes my previous text, but basically what I was mainly referring to is that it solves tons of problems that people have while flashing, especially with heavily modded roms like Nfsfans.

I didn't believe it till I did it with his roms(all I really run on my phones now..)
and it has made a WORLD of difference in performance.
There's no mistaking it as a placebo.
He does basically rewrite a pretty good amount of the DLL's and Core OS files.

Re: Logic behind flashing phones multiple times
 

Interesting...I never had problems with custom ROMs,just 1 flash is enough for me.
But when I flashed to shipped exe ROM,it worked weird,did reflash and it worked much better.Im almost forgot how wm6.1 looks lol.Im sure its carriers junk and from tonns of NFSFANs dlls only 1 can cause the issues-its epst,I think...

Re: Logic behind flashing phones multiple times
 

Moved to the general Vogue Forum.

late,
Coz

Re: Logic behind flashing phones multiple times
 

You can't conclude that it really helps just because you are not affected by problems that happen to others. There are lots of people, myself included, that do not experience those problems either and I have never flashed multiple times. Also, it doesn't matter how many bits are modded by the rom ... the new one overwrites it. You say bits are left behind in your program folder ... I think this is impossible.

-GT

Re: Logic behind flashing phones multiple times
 

For the longest time I always thought that this phenomenon of multiple flashing was just akin to a superstition. Glad to see that I'm not alone. Cheers.

Re: Logic behind flashing phones multiple times
 

Talking about epst.epst,what is it?
Why is it capable to lock my phone?
What is hard SPL and whats happening when I run unlocker?
Im noob in this area lol