Petition to Sprint to enable the GPS on the 6800
 

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Please post here if you want the GPS on the 6800 to be enabled so we don't have to buy a seperate GPS unit. THe 6700 had a GPS but Sprint disabled it so they could sell their direction service monthly fee.

http://forums.buzzaboutwireless.com/...jump=true#M343

You're serious? Omg.. the GPS device in the 6700 is an AGPS (Asynchronous) device, usable ONLY for E911 situations. It's not a synchronous GPS device meaning it can only speak to the satallites 1 way, not 2 way like a usable GPS device can.

In laimans terms, it can send coordinates, not recieve.

The poster of the Verizon phone in PDAphones home did not have to dial 911 to get his GPS info - http://stuff.michiganbroadband.com/x...s/DSCF0201.jpg

The "A" in AGPS stands for Assisted, not Asynchronous. No GPS device is capable of "speaking" to GPS satelites. GPS satelites only transmit a time code, they don't receive anything (except instructions from the military, but that's a completely different matter). What AGPS means is that the phone needs a cellular signal in order to receive a GPS fix.

I'm wondering what sort of magic you think goes on in the phone that makes it capable of sending coordinates that it doesn't even have, since you say it cannot receive the coordinates in the first place.

Re: Petition to Sprint to enable the GPS on the 6800
 

I doubt the 6800 has a true GPS (i.e. speed, power, sensitivity, multiple satellites) - probably AGPS like the 6700.

Petitioning Sprint for support/features has to be an excercise in futility - e.g. as we all know, Sprint's latest AKU for 6700 is still 2.x.

I am going to move this over to the Titan forum seams like the best place for this discussion 8)

Re: Petition to Sprint to enable the GPS on the 6800
 

[quote="willysp"]
I emailed HTC about a Windows Mobile 6 upgrade... the interesting thing was that without askin about GPS the rep told me that GPS is possible with a software upgrade, but is upto the carrier to request it.

So that doesn't mean really anything other than the device is capable of doing it.


That came from Howardforums.com.

http://www.howardforums.com/showthre...1&page=4&pp=15

I'm sure this coming from the fact that the hardware is indeed capable of opering the GPS in a stand-alone mode without cellular towers/service present by actually receiving Satillite Signals! The main application of this integrated GPS in the Qualcomm processor is for AGPS, but the stand alone mode is one of 4 differnet modes.

See here:
http://www.cdmatech.com/download_lib...00_chipset.pdf
and here:
http://www.cdmatech.com/technologies/gpsone.jsp

Granted it is no SiRF III chipset, but it's supposed to work.

I highly doubt a big Carrier will ever support activating the stand alone mode if they offer a pay-per-month service that utilizes the AGPS for that phone.

This unfortunately is the same situation the 6700 is/was in and unfortunately it'll be a sore point for many until the 6900 comes out ...and beyond.....

boe, can you please point me in the direction to back up your statement that Sprint deliberately disabld the gpsOne unit in the 6700? if you don't have any hard evidence, all it is is naysay, or as you call it, "bogus".

that being said, everyone please refer to this link about discussion of the gpsOne unit on board. it is not likely we will be able to use it as a fully operational gps, and for all intents and purposes, it doesn't seem like sprint disabled it. HTC either enables it for everyone (sprint verizon telus alltel) or doesn't - but there isn't an instruction set to write programs with, as of now, in order for us to benefit from it.

http://www.ppcgeeks.com/size-compari...azr-t4542.html

ok now lets stop this silly talk and realize we can't use it even if we wanted to.
sledgie

at the product training we had on wednesday the HTC rep said that there will be no need to use a puck as the GPS will be usable for navigation and turned on out of the box.

i dunno, kinda seems to good to be true.

OMG! WHY IS IT SO HARD FOR PEOPLE TO BELIEVE?

For cr*p sakes the chip has a GPSONE chip built right in. HTC has told people it IS able to be activated, but is disabled at carrier request.

However, carriers seem to have dificulty using it in a WinMobile environment (lack of instructions?). So they can't charge us for the nav features.

So why not open it up to consumers?

Are you sure, there's an active call in that screenshot.

You nailed it. They want a closed API to charge folks like TeleNav and Garmin to access it... and keep free apps like Google Maps out.

And yes, it's that simple. Verizon says they're working on one... Sprint hasn't confirmed they are or not.

Good to see you back Chistopher!

I can't help but be optimistic. Even if it's opened up on the 6800 that may be the clues needed to enable it on the 6700s...

http://cameronsayshey.19.forumer.com/viewtopic.php?p=52

Response (Dario O.) 01/08/2007 02:16 PM
I am UTStarcom PDA Coordinator: I looked up your name and we only see one from today when you spoke to Aly N.

Your questions about the chipset are proprietary information some I cannot answer. The 6700 device does support GPS. The compatibility must be WM5.0 and must come with a bluetooth GPS connector.

My questions (Q and comments (C are as follows (I apologize for all of the 'Why's): (D) for Dario

Q:1. How can I place the phone into standalone mode?
C: Yes. It does support it. It is possible, everyone has come to that conclusion.
D: Sprint does not allow that feature through PPC6700 and there is no update for that feature.


Q:2. Why (If it is disabled) is it disabled?
D: Sprint disabled it

Q:3. How (If it is disabled) is it disabled?
D: Sprint's request

Q:4. If something is preventing enabling, what is it?
D: Proprietary information

Q:5. Why did Standalone work on the first generations of ROMs on the 6600?
D: Most likely with ROM 1.05wwe. Sprint and other carriers just wanted to disable that feature because they intend on not supporting "Standalone."

Q:6. Why does a Verizon VX6700 Phone (which is the same phone?), have the ability to gather data from fieldtrial.exe's GPS tab when making a call (to phone number: 922 and the obvious 911)? Some other people who are also as interested in this as myself with the sprint carrier, have tried every single thing possible, including dialing 911, but still not one single bit of data appears in fieldtrial.exe
C:I will try to save you from giving me the carrier dependent affiliation response. Dialing 911 is not a recommended action.
D: D: Proprietary information


Q:7. What is different between Sprint and Verizon's ROM that makes the change in operability, or am I missing something that is different in the schematics of the phone itself? D:Sprint's and Verizon's CDMA network and what they require to use in the 6700


C: I have heard everything: "It doesn't work on the Sprint BMF framework", "You need to be a Sprint Developer to have access to that function and API", and "You need a Certificate from VeriSign for 400$". Possibilities exist for everything. Nothing is impossible.
D: Where did you hear that? You install it through a storage card as an email attachment or through Enroller just sign in.


Most people do not understand my point of view. It is possible for me to buy a Bluetooth GPS receiver and have better accuracy, but I choose not to. It's not about the accuracy, it's about having something there, but not being able to touch it, to use it, to explore it's potential. It would be like buying a new car with ONStar® and not being able to use it because GM doesn't let you. I know this is definitely not the first inquiry you have received, and it will most likely not be the last.For this I apologize for any inconvenience this may have caused. Please feel free to do a little bit of investigation on this matter if you need to, and help me fix this problem. Thank you for your time and patience in reviewing this matter with me.

D: We go by what the carrier request's. So if Sprint's want us to enable or disable some feature with in the phone we go by their standards. Unfortunately Sprint will not have more updates for the PPC6700.[/b]

I didn't say they didn't have to make a call - I said they didn't have to call 911. You can find a great deal about non emergency numbers being used to gather this info if you search.

if the feature is truely there, isn't it possible that everyone can jump on the banwagon and file a class action lawsuit like ex. Verizon/Bluetooth w/V720 and crippling the device features???

I know there has been so much debate over if the device is even capable of true GPS or not. Has anyone disected the device and looked at the physical chipset to find out?

No because it was never advertised to have a working stand alone GPS, only AGPS. Not even the manufacturer (HTC) ever advertised it that way.

It has been disected, but it didn't need to be. We know the communications chip that is inside the unit and the type of GPS (GPSone) that it has. So hardware is not the issue. It is getting the low-level software made to enable the feature, which isn't something that a crack programmer could do without some "inside" knowledge....but you never know...but still very unlikely though.

The first Windows Mobile5.0 PPC phone with integrated GPS didn't come out until mid 2006, which actually had a SiRF Star III chipset.

The 6700 was released around mid 2005.
It sold effectively as it was. Purchased mine 2 years ago at $450, and recently seen it sold at local stores for $400 - and discontinued last month.


Current competition will force their hand to integrate a fully functioning GPS in future releases.

If they enabled the subpar navigation from the beginning it would've been just asking for trouble in more ways than one.

There's a lot of FUD going on here, largely propagated by UTStarcom.

To date, no CDMA PDA/Phone has gpsOne enabled as an "open tap" for GPS solutions. Sprint didn't request something be disabled... that's wrong. To-date, no carrier has permitted gpsOne for consumer applications, so HTC has never fully implemented the serial link necessary.

There will be no "market drive" to implement a traditional GPS in CDMA phones. Verizon and Sprint are working on getting gpsOne to work for consumer GPS navigation in Windows Mobile, and that is where the applications will be used. HTC is not interested in adding GPS (on top of gpsOne) to CDMA units. Don't believe me? Spend 12 hours getting one of their product managers on the phone to ask them yourself.

Finally, don't trust a word that comes out of UTStarcom customer service emails. Nine times out of ten, they don't know what they're talking about when answering questions of this technical a nature.

Ok, so there's no 'consumer drive', that's simply not true. If there was no consumer drive, why would carriers be spending so much ad $s on navigation subscriptions for much more basic phones? Because we have a pda and are more tech than an 'average phone user' would it be natural to expect us to want more or less tech in our phone????

EVERYONE is trained to expect this to not function.

You can find this debate going on all over the net, people DO want this. One nagging thing though... In every one of these debates (threads) someone says "Hey GPS on our PDA!" followed immediately by someone else "What are you serious, that doesn't work, that can't work, don't waste your time even thinking about it because it will NEVER EVER HAPPEN!"

Maybee if instead, everyone went to ONE petition, aimed at HTC they would see the 'consumer drive', and realise that it would give them a very marketable edge over their competitors.

It may not ever work, I know that, but I also know it CAN, and at least if things are being done PROactive, it gives us a chance at seeing this implimented sooner in some device.

People who demand nothing but the finest accuracy would still need a separate device. However it opens up a whole new world of location based services to many users that would otherwise be much later adopters.

Consumers want GPS in their PDA, everyone knows that. HTC however will not waste $20-$50 per unit in R&D and adding the components to have not one, but two independent GPS systems into a single PDA.

You are much better off pushing Verizon and Sprint to accelerate their plans for gpsOne on Windows Mobile than demanding HTC add autonomous GPS to their CDMA devices, which they are not inclined to do.

By pushing Sprint/Verizon to add gpsOne support to Windows Mobile devices, they will in turn be more motivated to work with HTC and Motorola to develop gpsOne passthroughs... that actually pass through the data in a way an application can use (reading the FieldTest menu is great... but would take a lot of code to turn into a serial port wrapper).

Only one Sprint phone has autonomous GPS, that's the Sanyo 7050. And it's so buggy right now that both Sanyo and Sprint are wishing they had just left it with gpsOne to begin with.

HTC makes a device that has a GPS built in. It's called the P3300. Clearly HTC knows how to do it.

havent we been over all of this already? I was under the impression that htc has unlocked the gpsone chip in one of its phones (hermes?) which made it work in standalone mode.. im not going to read through all the threads again but i thought this was common knowledge.

6800 needs to leave gps open. after spending what we are going to on this phone it would be nice to not have to purchase redundant equiptment, and it would be nice to not have to carry said equiptment around with us.

I think that this is the best way to put it. However, I am unsure of how this will turn out. The carriers simply don't want to have to provide support for this added feature. Remember when the 6700 first came out? How about when the Blackberry came out? These were some new components that the carriers would have to train and teach their techs about and it is a long process. Think about when an emergency occurs and someone knows that their device has GPS and their child has it as well. They might be calling Sprint, or Verizon instead of 911 first just to see how to check on them to make sure they are safe. They in turn may become responsible or under so much stress because of the situations that they are put under...

BTW, remember that phone that was out that had the ability to track down a child? That phone isn't out anymore is it? It wasn't even out for 1 year or so. Maybe we can look at how well that program worked and base our hopes off of that.

Andrew,

The PPC 6700 has a gpsone chip. This can use cell towers or GPS satellites to get GPS info. For more accuracy, the phone can get a GPS almanac from a carrier server and/or use cell tower information to assist the GPS location determination.

All carriers are required to have E911 GPS service, so however it does it, it can determine location. The questions are:

1) how to enable the GPS outside of E911
2) how to set it up in a mode that does not require access to the carrier location server (which provides the almanac) or determine the IP address and port number for the server (there are 2 standard ports 6062 and 8889 which may or may not be used for this)
3) how to get the GPS data accessible to WM5/WM6 OS - this would probably require a hack to the radio ROM (see the Qualcomm block diagram of the MSM6500 chipset - the GPS antenna signal goes through the radio unit before getting to the GPSOne chip).

HTC could have neglected to write the radio-to-OS link or disabled it for Sprint. However, since they enabled it for the P3600, it appears that at this point they have a GPSOne-WM5 connection available. Hopefully they will roll it out to Sprint, but I doubt that Sprint would make it available (just like WM6).

QPST can program the GPSOne mode and the IP address and port. However, it does not provide a COM port to talk to WM5. I assume that would have to be in the radio ROM

Also, using older ROMs (before wmodem was disabled) you can use hyperterminal to talk to the modem with AT commands, but all the modem does is respond with OK even to invald commands. If that is on the driver side of things, it may be able to stop the modem from being mute and you could use the CDMA GPS AT commands to see if the GPS data is presented to that interface without E911.

Does the 8800 have a gps antenna also?

http://www.ppcgeeks.com/possible-agp...700-t4462.html

the p3600 is the phone in question. It has the same GPSone as the 6700 and 6800 and originally came without GPS support - THIS IS possible. I realise it will be unlikely to happen without an HTC buyin, being as the opened it on the above device, I think they are the key here. Not the individual carriers.

They will integrate a full functioning GPS in future releases... REGARDLESS of the "how". It is of course all market driven.

That is the point I believe we are all wanting to achieve.

If I was to make a raging idiot guess on the "why" as for "why not already" then I'd say it is likely because at some point the cost effectiveness was not favorable. Perhaps the carriers couldn't negotiate a deal with the manufacturer, or perhaps there wasn't enough competition to effect the supply/demand at that time.

Now that there is more competition raising the bar there is now more incentive for this to happen regardless of any petition or effort we enact.

the fact is this: you will NOT see it come standard on the 6800. I know this because I have one.

Yes, I know that's true at this moment, however does it currently have wm6, or EVDO revA, there WILL be an update. Perhaps with some consumer presure...

it currently has WM5 and rev0. Chances are slim to none that the gpsOne chip will get a WindowsMobile API made available for this handset.