OPINION: Mogul was designed for WM5!
 

I've jumped back and forth between custom WM6 and WM5 roms, and after a few days of using WM5 (sampson's clean, rev 00 [because rev 01 kept hard resetting at random]), I am convinced! I used to live with WM6 and its lag, believing that was just how it is, but WM5 really opened my eyes. It is at least twice as fast. Sliding used to take like 3 seconds with WM6, but with WM5 it takes less than a second. Scrolling pages on IE used to be terrible on WM6, so choppy that text becomes unreadable even when scrolling at a slow rate. Not so with WM5: pages scroll smooth and quick, and more importantly, you can actually read while you scroll. Of course, these are minor details (major selling points for me), but overall, it feels much snappier and more responsive. There seems to be a very tiny memory leak, but nowhere as bad as it was with WM6. Example: I started at about 28MB in the morning, was about 23MB last time I checked. But even with multiple apps running, there doesn't seem to be any noticable lag (compared to WM6, which would literally freeze when you run more than three apps).

There are a few setbacks, such as the last-gen graphics and an older version of IE, but these are subtle differences, and WM5 operates pretty much just like WM6. However, I am still in search of a working smart dialer to go along with the Touch dialer I installed.

If you haven't tried WM5, and are willing to experiment, I strongly encourage you to give it a shot.

It is definitely insanely faster.

I had a bit of instability after installing a lot of apps though, and the Office Mobile cab/New Document thing is a little annoying.

The Mogul was definitely designed for WM5.

In my opinion, ALL current PPCs were. There just isn't enough juice to feed the WM6 hog yet... kinda like Vista. Vista can never get enough juice... lol.

Uh... well I dunno. I am running wm6 on the 6700, and it's working fine - its performing as well or better then it did with the last wm5 (AKU3.5) custom rom.

I think its safe to say that the hardware is not designed for any particular WM release, but that the quality of the rom image (and drivers) is pretty important to the performance of any device. Sure, you can hide a bad OS/driver build with lots of ram and CPU, but that's cheating...

Here Here schettj. Well put.

If this board shows anything the commercial releases are somewhat lacking, and these devices can be improved a LOT by effort and time.

These devices are NEW. The drivers are still young. Let them grow and breethe. It will get much better. WM5 also has a longer history and more registry hacks are by default known to be applied.

I indeed think my wm6 rom runs better with a number of the old wm5 hacks applied. However i'm quite sure that some of the hacks i'm doing arent needed anymore or should be refined other ways. That is the lifecycle i belive of WM releases and new devices.

Nice. Finally a voice of reason.

I doubt that the Titan was specifically designed for WM5, but I do think it's pretty clear by now that WM6 should have more RAM that the Titan has.

As to performance, the last (and fatally flawed) Titan ROM had a newer build of WM6 that is clearly faster and more responsive. In fact, the latest Titan ROM is a bit faster than the initial Touch ROM.

Like other MS OS's (Vista a great point), new releases of Windows Mobile have feature bloat with little attention given to performance. It takes a service pack (Vista) or MR's (Sprint) before you see performance improvement.

I have WM6 running on my 6700, and it runs great. I have lots of apps installed, i have zero stability issues. When i ran WM5, i had nothing but problems, battery life, stability after about 6 hours of use, and it crashed constantly. I have been waiting for the 6800, but i think i'll stick with my 6700 and wm6 for a while.

I must admit, I am getting very curious about trying WM5 out. What are the basic core functions/features we would lose by reverting back to WM5?

I think that is the real question.

That said, I think its unfair to judge WM6 against WM5 in its current form. The OS itself needs an update and so does the ROM we are comparing. I expect a major update after the first of the year (sometime) that improves memory usage (leak fix) and overall speed. If the picture is still the same after WM6's major update then there might be something more to reverting back to Wm5.

i feel like the titan had intended purposes of using wm5, infact, looking at the sprint box, it shows a mogul running wm5 and not wm6

i guess i can get with the arguement that so far, sprint/htc are giving us unperfected roms, but even then, telus went out and gave there customers a wrking option from the get go

the only thing i miss from wm6 is smart dialing and internet sharing (i havent figured out how for sampsons rom yet), other wise, wm5 is a large improvement over the stock roms being released

i'll prolly switch back to wm6 when rev a comes out, but thatll be in 2008 by the look of things, and hopefully there will either be a stable rom to acompany it or a wm5 release hacked to run it

seriously..
 

How long has WM5 been out? WM6?... What AKU is WM5 up to? WM6?

WM6 just came out compared to WM5. Give it a chance!


That is all

Yeah, WM6 has been out for less than a year, lol.

I remember the first time I installed Vista on my home computer. I hated it so bad, and went back to XP. Now they've done enough updates to make it a nice OS, and by the time SP1 comes out, it should be a very nice system.

You just have to give Microsoft some time. haha

I do have to comment as a developer on OS design in general.

OS's typically have a fairly long active life when launched. An OS is designed to be around for a long time and that "feature bloat" people talk about is also what in 2-3 years they will consider normal. Just look at XP now and then go back to read threads when it launched about how slow and overloaded it is.

When a company designs any OS they have to design for where hardware will be in a year or two after launch as that will be the mid-cycle of the OS's life span. As such yes, they squeeze everything they can out of it with the thought that in 5 years these new features will just be typical things people expect and the state of hardware will easily catch up. You can't release an OS every 6 months to match the pace of hardware advancement so you have to plan ahead... and far enough ahead features wise to keep pace with competition for several years.

MS, with their typical development cycles being so long though is probably the worst for this... a downside to their size. But new OS's being slow will never change. People will always complain about it... like they did when DOS 4,5 and 6 came out, Win 3.1, Win 95, Win 98, Win2k, WinXP, OS2, every Mac OS release... it's happened every single time and it always will. When the next OS releases you'll want to go back to XXXX because it was so much faster... and people will always complain.

It's all in where you want to ride the wave. An early or late adopter :)

"An OS is designed to be around for a long time and that "feature bloat" people talk about is also what in 2-3 years they will consider normal."

This is probably because in 2-3 years, the hardware would be much faster and thus more adapt to WM6's requirements. The Mogul simply isn't up for it, at least not with the current ROMs we have. I do have faith in this community, and I believe that with enough time, we will be able to iron out the kinks and refine a more perfect ROM.

Until then, WM5 is the way to go.

Exactly my point. OSs are designed to run WELL on what hardware will be a year or two from now. They just can't be released fast enough to run well on what you have in your pocket or on your desk today. If you want to be an early adopter for the features you'll have to take the performance hit. If you want speed and reliability, don't jump on new OSs until they (and your hardware) have matured.

Uh.. ok
However, WM6 is running well on hardware that is 2 years OLDER then the 6800. And that's not the only HTC hardware that has been WM6-enabled via Helmi_c and others.

I still stand by my statement - the problem with WM6 isn't hardware. It's getting a build that is tuned for whatever hardware you're trying to run it on.

The 6700 is more popular and FAR more developed for than the 6800 (that is on top of the 6700 being older, which helps).

Look how long it took for custom 6800 full cases/skins to even release. There were many phones released after the Mogul was that had tons of case varieties for sale far before the 6800 did.

People switching from the 6800 to the touch won't help the situation of development interest much either, unless any updates to the Touch are portable to the 6800. Even then that will not help out your average user who isn't into finding custom .cab files to fix everything...

What's so great about wm6 anyway, nicer lines, shadows, icons, a2dp support is better, and pie is a little better....but really whats so great there?

With all the third party software out there the looks don't even matter. If you can make something like the Palm OS look practically as good as WM, WM5 is easy with Wisbar Advance or something similar.

I kind of doubt people are abandoning the mogul for the touch in droves. From what I've seen of it, it's not an upgrade and it's not a business phone. Also, HTC announced an update in "Q1 2008" which is anywhere between 2 and 5 months from now instead of "next week" or some meaningless bull. I'm hoping that means they've gotten that message that quality is more important than speed and they don't do yet another rush release that turns out to be dodgy at best. I'll gladly wait a few more months for an update if it means I get a really nice phone from it. Per WM5, it's out of the question. If I wanted that, I'd still be using my fast 700wx with WM5. Phooey.

Well tbh, the 700wx running WM5 isn't nearly the same thing as the Mogul running WM5.

They aren't similar at all.

I really don't see how the Mogul (from release date until today) can be used by many people as a business phone either. It has a large rate of instability.

That's my point. If I wanted to run WM5, I'd use the 700wx. But I don't want to use WM5. I used it for a year and a half before I got the Mogul. It was fine a year ago but now it's old and I don't like it.

Per stability, I haven't had any problems. No memory issues, no apps screwing it up, no disconnects, GPS works without a problem, it only froze once because I forced it to using the 2.16 system, no volume issues. It could be faster but it works fine and I use it a *hell* of lot more than my Blackberry 8800. Am I a minority? Maybe on this site but in the real world? I wouldn't be so sure of that.

I wouldn't say that the complaints originate from or revolve around this forum though. There are many forums, sites and Wiki pages regarding the 6800.

question: has anyone notice any txt message delays with WM5?

I'm not sure if its the network or me running wm5 but some of my incoming txt seem like they're about 10 min delayed

running the alltel wm5 rom btw

i think it is safe to say when we get to aku .70, it will work a lot better

I have to say coming from the 6700, i totally mostly agree with you... lol. but I feel its just like when a computers ram and cpu become more and more important as newer software and updates require more.... typically.... and I honestly feel the amount of ram the mogul has is holding it back. but that said i love the mogul and I think its a great phone and for me ram alone doesn't justify switching to the touch (as so many have done, and good for them), but the touch does have that as a advantage. anyway I'm just saying your right lol but powerful hardware does help out alot in the long run. hopefully one day they will start making the hardware on these devices upgradeable.... i doubt it cuz thats their bread and butter but i can dream.

From what I've seen you lose:
- smart dialing
- built in IOTA
- icons and taskbars, not as graphically pretty
- MS office, but it's not that hard to find the cabs for it
From what I've heard you lose:
- a2dp, while working, doesn't sound as good
- the 6gb sdhc card shows as 2gb, but my 4gb card shows as 4gb

What you gain:
- memory, nearly 30mb after a hard reset
- no memory leak
- STABILITY, no forced soft resets since I've installed it
- I haven't had to hard reset my phone either (which was a common occurrence)
- battery life, more of my belief, but I can't say for sure
- bluetooth functionality, it's louder and no complaints from the person on the other end
What I've heard:
- it's faster, although I never had a problem with WM6's speed

I'm hoping that at some point the community gets a good WM6 rom put together, I don't trust sprint/htc to do that. Until then I'm sticking with WM5.

I don't have an opinion on what the Mogul was designed for WM5 or WM6, but at the moment with the current ROMs it works better with WM5. I think WM6 is an insignificant upgrade and to use it and refuse to use WM5 just because it's a newer release is ridiculous.

You also lose Windows Live.

You have to find the cab if you want to get push Windows Live email.

i guess the graphical elements of wm6 arent that important to me, i like the wm5 bars a lot more! i think the wm6 bars work a lot better on vga screens than qvga, imo it makes my screen look smaller.

the icons of wm6 are better, but theres not much else to notice.

smart dialing works with the vogue dialer
i think there is an IOTA cab in the sampson thread
meh
yup

Here's a cab of the Touch dialer w/ smart dialing working on WM5.

Is there a way to use modify WM5 with the look and feel of WM6??? I tried WM5 it is MUCH MUCH quicker but hes so UGLY compared to WM6....

You could add in Wisbar advanced to gussy things up BUT I really don't find slightly plainer task bar icons to be objectionable. I was able to get around WM6's BT and Keyboard problems but the memory "leak" has no cure. I found myself having to soft reset periodically just to keep the device functioning properly and often had below 5mb available at the end of the day. It was amusing to watch the memory just disappear shortly after a reboot. I finally gave up and upgraded to WM5. As far as I can tell, the only thing you really give up is stereo BT performance, which I don't use. OTH, I can finally listen to a podcast via Coreplayer AND view a web page at the same time. Something I took for granted on my old 6700. Hopefully, Sprint/HTC/M$ will come back with an acceptable WM6 ROM next year. Considering M$'s history with OS memory usage, I'm not holding my breath! As it stands now, I could live with my WM5 Mogul for the foreseeable future