Live Search on Verizon DSL WIFI WEP

[gambatte]

Originally Posted by weedahoe

Post 8, i dont blame him if he doesnt know what he is doing. he could make it worse for all other devices. I know it is easy and so do others but its because we are used to it.

Well, I guess I don't mind if I know where this will take me. Even if I disable the WEP, and it works, I am not willing to run my network without security, eventhough WEP isn't that great. I suppose I can disable the WEP on the router while everything else is unplugged/off and the XV6700 is on to check. But please give me a scenario on what I could do next? Make a new WEP key, etc. or try to install again when the WEP is disabled? Or do I need a new router? I was told the router would not connect at all if it was bad. I just don't know how much more it will tell me other than security is the problem, which I am ready to accept now.

[ran-o-matic]

To reason to disable WEP is to isolate the problem. Right now, I don't think anyone could tell you what is wrong with your system, but it does seem clear that the problem is unique to what you have. You need this test to confirm your own theory that it is WEP related.

The thought that you have a DNS issue (from computercarl in post #4) is possible, but right now I'm assuming the you have a simple network and depend on Verizon for DNS.

Wait a minute - You're using NAT so that you have private addresses on the inside of your network, right? What is your inside address range? Any change you are using a publicly routable address range? That would cause you some grief.

[weedahoe]

Originally Posted by ran-o-matic

To reason to disable WEP is to isolate the problem. Right now, I don't think anyone could tell you what is wrong with your system, but it does seem clear that the problem is unique to what you have. You need this test to confirm your own theory that it is WEP related.

I agree with this one but the only issue I have here is that he isnt tech savvy and doesnt even know where is oringal WEP came from much less was is a custom key or random generated. Him bringing down the security is a great troubleshooting step but possibly could cause hair loss when trying to bring it back up. I can do it all in my sleep but other cannot.

Originally Posted by ran-o-matic

The thought that you have a DNS issue (from computercarl in post #4) is possible, but right now I'm assuming the you have a simple network and depend on Verizon for DNS.

For some reason (and I understand where the idea comes from) I am just not leaning towards this cause and resolution.

Originally Posted by ran-o-matic

Wait a minute - You're using NAT so that you have private addresses on the inside of your network, right? What is your inside address range? Any change you are using a publicly routable address range? That would cause you some grief.

All routers use NAT and assign private DHCP IP addresses inside the network on the LAN side. The DHCP range should have nothing to do with it if he is able to connect via WiFi on the PPC. This means he has already been given a private IP (ex 192.x.x.x or 10.x.x.x). Doing an IP Passthru (where you disable all NAT, Firewall and DHCP) is a good idea but would have two drawbacks. One, it would only prove it is a router issue (which you cannot convince anyone here that the router just doesnt like Live Search for some reason) and two, you are talking more advance network/router configuration steps to a self-proclaimed non-technical user.

For some reason I just feel like Im not getting the whole story or that something vital yet simple is being overlooked. True, this would be a unique issue that is totally represented by the OP as no one I know of or have ever read about has had this issue before.

It just doesnt make sense. Live Search uses the same connection that every other peice of software (IMs, IE, Piscal, Live TV and whatever else) uses. No where in Live search can you define what connection it needs to use. The OP says he can connect and surf in his own home on his own network using WEP but when he tries to start up Live Search it wants to connect to a data line to his carrier?!?! WTF?!?! No. Something is missing here.

The user says "Every device on my home WEP-secured network, 3 laptops, printer, printer server, range expander, including the XV6700, has accepted the WEP key and connects perfectly". So from this I do not see it being a DNS issue or else something else wouldnt be able to load a page somewhere. You are suggesting DNS is stopping an application from connecting (one application BTW). The OP says they have uninstalled/reinstalled Live search as well as did many soft/hard resets and yet it still is not solved.

I just wanna stop and clarfiy real quick on what resets have been done because a HARD reset will complete wipe everything from your phone and this is what you are saying you have done correct? You took the phone and hard reset it, wiped all memory clean, reloaded a ROM, reloaded Live Search and only that software and still get the same issue. Is that what you are telling me? Because if it is and that is exactly what you have done, then I dont know what else to tell you other than tp put it my hands so I can see it for myself because I just dont believe it.

[ran-o-matic]

Something weird is definately going on. As I said, a DNS problem doesn't seem too likely, but then again, nothing else seems likely either. Heck, the OP is saying he had this problem with the stock ROM.

My NAT suggestion is based on an actual problem I have seen. In that case, the person configured a NATed router and did not use one of the address ranges reserved for private networks. Surprisingly, web browsing worked, but a custom apps we develpoed had problems. We corrected the private address range and the problem was solved.

[gambatte]

Originally Posted by weedahoe

I agree with this one but the only issue I have here is that he isnt tech savvy .

Ouch, this is beginning to hurt. I actually believe I am above average in my computing skills but my issue is that the range expander came with instructions to "press the autoconfig button" and you are done. Noo waay. After 4 hrs with Tech Support holding and getting the song and dance that the device was incompatible with a G-router and repeated power cycles of the network and endless "limited connectivity" warnings, etc. I was about ready to thow it away but finally got it working with the help of a forum. Hence, my unwillingness to mess with something without good cause. Don't get me wrong but these forums are invaluable.

Originally Posted by weedahoe

you are talking more advance network/router configuration steps to a self-proclaimed non-technical user..

I'm willing to try anything within reason. I don't have endless hours to devote to this, though.

Originally Posted by weedahoe

For some reason I just feel like Im not getting the whole story or that something vital yet simple is being overlooked. True, this would be a unique issue that is totally represented by the OP as no one I know of or have ever read about has had this issue before...

http://forums.microsoft.com/WindowsM...7356&SiteID=65


http://forums.microsoft.com/WindowsM...7278&SiteID=65

Here are two independent thread starters that have the same problem. No responses because I guess it is just too bizarre and unbelievable.

Originally Posted by weedahoe

It just doesnt make sense. Live Search uses the same connection that every other peice of software (IMs, IE, Piscal, Live TV and whatever else) uses. No where in Live search can you define what connection it needs to use. The OP says he can connect and surf in his own home on his own network using WEP but when he tries to start up Live Search it wants to connect to a data line to his carrier?!?! WTF?!?! No. Something is missing here....

I totally agree and don't know what Live Search looks for in terms of an internet connection. A funny thing happened last night. I ran the Live Search and it went to EV-DO and worked as usual. I turned the data connection off as I didn't want to rack up charges. The icon went off for data connection and the phone appeared. Well, the Live Search continued to do about 10 more searches before it returned to the search error. Is that latency or what??

Originally Posted by weedahoe

I just wanna stop and clarfiy real quick on what resets have been done because a HARD reset will complete wipe everything from your phone and this is what you are saying you have done correct? You took the phone and hard reset it, wiped all memory clean, reloaded a ROM, reloaded Live Search and only that software and still get the same issue. Is that what you are telling me? Because if it is and that is exactly what you have done, then I dont know what else to tell you other than tp put it my hands so I can see it for myself because I just dont believe it.

Well, to do the WM6 upgrade, that would be considered a hard reset right?Right after, I was anxious to see if the Live Search would work but it did not. I think I cooked the Yahoo 2.0 Go!, too, though come to think of it. Surely, it could not be because I loaded Yahoo 2.0 Go! first before Live Search? I loaded the Yahoo before Live Search on the stock WM5 ROM, too.
Oh, the WEP key was randomly generated. There is no way I could pick those letters and numbers.

Thanks for you discussion on this. I knew that the people that did the WM6 would know more about these things. Now if I could just get ahold of a Live Search developer.....

[ran-o-matic]

Still trying to help. My PPC is at WM6.1 and I have Sprint's $15 Vision deal, so I don't use wifi much. Since you had the problem in WM5, looks like its not an OS issue anyway. I left mine at WM6.1 and configured my wifi. It is set to automatically connect to my access point using WEP and uses "The Internet" connection. I also never use Windows Live, so it took a minute to get it running. It let me authenticate using my msn.com email account, so that worked ok. It synced my email fine (oops - didn't really want that!). I did a live search for "bees" - it opened m.live.com and presented the results.

I tried switching the connection to "work" - The EVDO connection opens and the data is transferred via Sprint. Of course, if I disable the phone, I get the cannot connect pop-up. Do you have other connections?

[weedahoe]

Sorry if I offended you on the verbal usage of you being non-technical but that was how I took everything. I didn’t mean to strike a nerve seriously.

As for the “press the autoconfig button”, you must be using Linksys and speaking with India. UGH! And yes the specs on the 6700 are 802.11b only and not G so you must run the router in B only or mixed mode. That one gets a lot of people.

Before you get into doing an IP Passthru or disabling all encryption let me ask you a question. I understand you can connect and surf on the 6700 using WiFi and WEP and that when doing this you cannot use Live Search. It has been brought up about disabling WEP and other software/hardware configurations but before you get into all of that can you go to a mall or store or drive down the road and pick up an open unsecured WiFi spot and not only connect and surf BUT ALSO use Live Search?

IF NOT, then there is NO reason to go through all the motions of trouble shooting and reconfiguring your home network. If you cannot do it somewhere else on another network then it isn’t your network that is the issue either.

Another thing, the quickest way to solve an OS issue on a computer is sometimes to format the HDD and start over. There is just less time involved in doing a quick format and reloading of the OS than there is in finding error codes or going through a knowledgebase, ECT.

So I say that to say this, because I just cannot understand how this is a software related issue solely on Live Search and nothing else, it is MY suggestion to back everything up using PIMBackup and Active Sync and do a hard reset on the device which will wipe all contacts, all photos and pics, all personal ringtones, ECT and install an OEM ROM from your carrier. After the installation of the new OEM ROM do another hard reset to get a clean slate and THEN install nothing else but Live Search. From that point connect via WiFi with WEP on your own network and tell me what you get.

You will be getting a fresh ROM with nothing but one application and I BET it will work. Once you have that working you can proceed with other apps OR go back to WM6 and try again.

Let me know how it goes.

[gambatte]

No, no offense taken at all but I can follow directions as well as the next. I may have to clarify some things as I don't do these things everyday or make a living at it. All the different configuration screens jumble together at some point. Yep, spot on. Linksys WRE54G. I actually try to help out the poor souls on the forum as this device was not ready to be released on an unsuspecting public. I'm actually not connecting the 6700 through the RE to the network but I know it is only b-compliant. I have an old Jornada 820 on a b-card hooked to the network so the router is in mixed mode. So I have learned alot....

Yes, I was at PHX a couple weeks back and hooked into the unsecured, free Sky Harbor WIFI network. Live Search worked like a charm. That's what clued me into the security. I will try disabling the WEP this weekend. Maybe it just hates my router. It is the offbrand Westell that Verizon gave free.

The 6700 is fairly new. Just got it in November. They gave a bit of a deal as it was the last one. Didn't know much about PPCs at the time and didn't know it was EOL. I don't have alot of stuff on it. When it was WM5 and new I just set up the WIFI, downloaded Yahoo, and the Live Search. That's it. At that time, I did not test out all the other WIFI and data connection scenarios and just uninstalled Live Search as "bad". I've never heard anyone else have a problem so I just recently became "obsessed" with getting it to work at home. I'm really not that bad off as others as I can get Live Search to work under certain conditions.

I probably won't mess with WM6 as I like the ROM. I don't have any issues with it freezing or needing alot of soft resets or not working with Voice Commander.

Here's a couple of other off the wall questions you should easily be able to answer. How does the ROM install/uninstall programs or files and not need to be defragged? Or are their defrag programs for WM6? Next question, there are like 6 or 7 network adapters listed on the connection adapter tab. Which one controls the internal 6700 WIFI? I tried to set the DNS per Ran-O-Matic and Computercarl on the one that said WLAN but it had absolutely no effect on the WIFI connection. Lastly, as far as security is concerned, is MAC filtering just as "effective" as WEP? I thought that I could activate that pretty easily through the Network Magic program I'm running on the laptops if the WEP happens to be the problem. Oh, and I do get an IP address issued to the 6700 192.168.1.47. Don't have a ping utility for the 6700, though.

Again, I sincerely appreciate all the thread traffic from Weed, Ran, and Carl. I knew it was a weird question when I started.

Edit: Just rereading the posts about the DNS issue. I actually can't load a webpage that everyone else (Microsoft forum) said is active: wls.live.com. It is supposed to be where you can download Live Search. IE could never connect to it. I had to download from ls.windowsmobile.com.

[weedahoe]

Originally Posted by gambatte

I probably won't mess with WM6 as I like the ROM. I don't have any issues with it freezing or needing alot of soft resets or not working with Voice Commander.

I am the same way, I use a ROM that fits my usage perfectly and gives no issues with all the modding I have done to it. My signature says it all. Once you have it right where you want it, I would leave it alone unless you have SPB Clone where you can make an exact copy of the phone and go off and play with it and screw it all up and restore it in less than 10 mins.

Originally Posted by gambatte

Here's a couple of other off the wall questions you should easily be able to answer.

1) How does the ROM install/uninstall programs or files and not need to be defragged? Or are their defrag programs for WM6?

2) Next question, there are like 6 or 7 network adapters listed on the connection adapter tab. Which one controls the internal 6700 WIFI?

3) I tried to set the DNS per Ran-O-Matic and Computercarl on the one that said WLAN but it had absolutely no effect on the WIFI connection.

4) Lastly, as far as security is concerned, is MAC filtering just as "effective" as WEP? I thought that I could activate that pretty easily through the Network Magic program I'm running on the laptops if the WEP happens to be the problem.

5) Oh, and I do get an IP address issued to the 6700 192.168.1.47. Don't have a ping utility for the 6700, though.

Ok, well lets try this again……

1) You can defrag, I use an app called Pocket Mechanic located here.

2) Because I use a custom ROM mine isn’t setup like yours so I cant give you a good answer on this one. I can get you some screen shots of mine if you want but they are different from what you look at on your. What are you trying to find or do?

3) 3) I didn’t think it would be a DNS issue because usually when you cannot resolve DNS you will not be able to surf. To confirm this you would be able to go to Goolgle.com by typing its IP address of 64.233.167.99 and for instance you can click on the two links below and they will both take you to the same site. So since you could surf, I didn’t think it was DNS related. You can usually surf faster by IP than you can DNS because it take some time to translate an alphameric address into a numerical.

Google.com
64.233.167.99

4) Neither MAC nor WEP is really effective but it all depends on who is trying to hack you and in most cases that’s no one because no one cares about you. They would rather go hack bigger connections, databases and businesses. However, you could disable WEP and go unsecured and setup MAC filtration in the router and limit your DHCP IP addresses and hard code all of them to better secure your network. An example is below.

1 network with 5 devices would have WEP/WPA(2) plus MAC with a DHCP range starting out at 192.168.1.100 (default for Linksys) and ending at 192.168.1.104 and this would give you ONLY 5 IP addresses to be assigned to those addresses. Also those limited addresses must be assigned to EACH device ‘statically’ for firewall configuration or LAN port priority management in the Linksys.

Desktop – 192.168.1.100
Laptop – 192.168.1.101
Xbox – 192.168.1.102 + MAC (if wireless)
6700 – 192.168.1.103 + MAC
iPhone – 192.168.1.104 + MAC

This way you are somewhat protected in 3 ways (network connectivity-wise). You have WEP+MAC+Limitied DHCP IP addys.

5) That IP of 192.168.1.47 may not stay the same the next day or next week as they are set to release and renew every 24hrs. Only if you statically assign them will they remain the same. As for a ping utility, I have Pocket LAN, WiFi Companion (which comes with (Ping and Traceroute)

[gambatte]

[quote=ran-o-matic;232607] I left mine at WM6.1 and configured my wifi. It is set to automatically connect to my access point using WEP and uses "The Internet" connection. I also never use Windows Live, so it took a minute to get it running. It let me authenticate using my msn.com email account, so that worked ok. It synced my email fine (oops - didn't really want that!). I did a live search for "bees" - it opened m.live.com and presented the results.
/quote]

Thanks, Ran. There are two different applications, Windows Live and Mobile Live Search. I know, Microsoft is good at confusing you with the same features and renaming (e.g. ActiveSync in XP and WMDC in Vista) or not renaming in this case. All aspects of Windows Live on WM6 work fine on my WIFI network, Mobile Messenger, email syncing, and the search function. My issue is with Mobile Live Search, which is a mapping, directions, category, Traffic, and Gas Price application. You can download it at ls.windowsmobile.com.It is really not a bad program and also has speech recognition. Hope you have better luck than I did!