What is microsoft doing?
 

I am not an apple fanboy.

Yesterday my friend showed me his iphone and another friend had the itouch. The speed was incredible. The games on it were incredible. Oregan trail? Sonic the hedgehog? Super-fast games that were beautiful.

Why does the TP/TP2 suck so much in terms of graphics/cpu power? How is microsoft and htc so behind on this? It's not as if the iphone or winmo are brand new.

anyone know why non-iphone phone makers want to make outdated/crappy products?

P.s. yes, I am using a custom rom (NRG - probably the best/fastest). But even with all of his hard work, my tp comes nowhere close to the iphone. =\ thinking of switching in a year or two

Re: What is microsoft doing?
 

I also have an iPod Touch, and thus far, have stopped playing games on my TP. Even simple games like Uno are just so much more enjoyable on my iPod. Sometimes, I turn on HTC Wifi Router on my TP, and use my iPod Touch to:

Pull down news like the NYT, USA Today, Time Mobile...
Check Traffic
Connect to my offices VPN (as Cisco does not seem to have a Windows Mobile VPN client, but Apple has one WTF?)
Check email, since the screen is larger and it's much easier to read and I cannot believe how well the onscreen keyboard works and yes I was a skeptic.

Look, I agree the TP is pretty far behind. The speed and crispness at which the Apple products run are so far ahead it's makes my lowly TP look pretty pathetic. I too run custom ROM's and yes, they help, but the chefs can only do so much. Speaking of custom ROM's, we do have to do a lot of tweaking (not to mention all the tweaks the chefs build in) to get these devices to work decently. Try Pandora on the iPod, just a simple install and your off and running, no freaking havng to install some already tweaked cab file (VGA+IVAN1.cab), and then changing the TCP window...that's ridiculous! Don't get me starting on trying to get NFS to work or even look halfway decent and not lockup the device ](*,).

It's unfortunate that these comparisons are so far out of whack, but they are. I do think WinMo is catching up, along with the hardware (TouchHD2, Omina HD, etc...). So just wait - things will get better.

Re: What is microsoft doing?
 

yea, it's a little frustrating to see how much better the i-phone does certain things. I don't like the iphone at all, but i would like to have a snappy UI that doesn't freeze up. Also some 3d graphic support would be nice. The new snapdragon processors definately look promising but without the proper software and drivers backing it up we'll still be where we are right now. The i-phone is marketed so well and they are so popular amongst average consumers it seems most developers lean their way. And then you have android which really seems to be making headway. I still like windows mobile with all it's customizations, but im starting to see WM as inferior in many ways.

Re: What is microsoft doing?
 

I wonder every day if Touch Pro owners will see an official 6.5 WMO release. Palm and Google are snatching some market share from Microsoft. Google's Android is rapidly gaining popularity...just look at the hype surrounding the upcoming Sprint Hero.

Don't get me wrong, I really like my Touch Pro, but most of the its best features are available on other mobile operating systems.

I think am going to give the Hero a try.

Re: What is microsoft doing?
 

Youhave to keep things in context though. Our phones are designed for productivity & multitasking, with a smattering of media & games.

The Iphone is not designed for multitasking & is geared towards media & entertainment related apps.

Re: What is microsoft doing?
 

You're right, solapathy, our phones are geared towards multi-tasking. This was my reasoning for a while before I actually played with the iphone in-person. The iphone doesn't even allow you to have more than one program open at the same time.


but honestly, with the speed of that device, you can multi-task faster with opening/closing single programs at once.

Re: What is microsoft doing?
 

Microsoft did not put a lot of support or man power into their mobile market. They released WinMo, got a decent market share in the beginning and then it was pretty much hands off. They seemed to operate from the perspective that there was no need to push things to the next level if things were working fine at the current level, thus the outdated OS of WM6.X.

However, since the release and success of the iPhone and the failure of Windows Vista (2/3 of Windows users still use XP) MS has realized the importance of ease of use and progressive thinking. Apple lit a fire under their tail if you will.

Anyhow, the devices we have are outdated, and the graphical performance of the iPhone is second to none. MS knows this which is why they are completely revamping the OS (about effin time) and I believe HTC does as well as is evidenced by production of phones like the Leo. The future will bring great things to WInMo and HTC and if WM 7 is anything like the improvement Windows 7 is, I think we will all be very happy. Question is, is it too late? WinMO holds on to very little market share at the moment and their mind share and market share are steadily declining. They must release something fantastic and market it well if they hope to survive.

Re: What is microsoft doing?
 

actually i think in raw horsepower for CPU the iphone didn't catch up to the TP until the 3GS
as for graphics, HTC just needs to pony up the dough and pay Qualcomm for the graphics accelerator drivers on the Qualcomm chipset
track down a guy on here by the name of Exiled, he'll let you know what's what :mrgreen:

Re: What is microsoft doing?
 

I do not agree with you when it comes to productivity , web browsing , customizability and availability of software...................windows and HTC is by far waaaaaay higher and more advanced.
I always feel that I carry my laptop in my pocket when I have my touch pro with me , it is pretty much a laptop in your hand , or may be more if you think about the accelerometer and the GPS .

mentioning games , TOMB RAIDER is not available in the iphone.(I checked this fact 5 months ago),
and have you played under the hood need for speed in the touch pro and compared it to the i phone ? !
I think apple need 4-5 years to catch up HTC , htc has been in the market making pocket pc for more than 10 years. and they know what they are doing . they are hacking the windows user and windows market in the whole world , apple is only competing with them mainly in US.

Re: What is microsoft doing?
 

I have a TP and an iPod Touch and have been using WinMo since the Apache days so I am very unbiased when it comes to WinMo but there isn't a person here that can tell me that the iPhone/iPod Touch doesn't provide a better media experience, web browsing experience, google maps experience, or game playing experience.

Honestly I am so sick and tired of WinMo lovers defending WinMo to death and not willing to accept the fact that Apple has made a superior product in every way (except multi-tasking which annoys me to no end with my iPod Touch, and the appstore restrictions).

Play a game on the iPod Touch/iPhone even something as simple as solitaire and it's a way better experiece, listen to music while browsing the web so you can see how seamless it is. Now I don't like ATT at all and I think their coverage is terrible (Sprint over here) but I am able to accept the fact that Apple has inspired companies to man up and step up to the plate. Without the iPhone there wouldn't have been a TouchFlo3D or Android.

Safari = the best browser, Opera doesn't even compare and this was made extremely apparent to me last week. I normally don't use Opera or IE I use Opera Mini. So during a break between classes I decided to go on Bananarepublic.com to show a girl this toggle coat I'm trying to buy this month. Okay Opera Mini was impossible to use to browse that site, so I fire up IE about 3/4 into loading the site IE closes, fine let's fire up Opera 9.5, the site is practically unbearable to navigate.

BUT, I fire up mobile safari on the campus's wifi connection and I can easily get to the website, get to the coat and zoom in all with ease. I'm telling anybody try to go on that site with opera 9.5 then try mobile safari it's a world's difference.


-An estimated 5 people will come in here screaming how much better WinMo is compared to Apple's OSX without having spent any real time with it.

I've owned my iPod Touch since last April so I'm pretty much good on it and I've owned my TP since December currently running NRGs latest rom. Among my bookmarks are Wmpoweruser.com, Wmexperts.com, and pocketnow.com, as well as this forum, XDA-devs, and Everythingdiamond so don't think Imma hater.

Re: What is microsoft doing?
 

Bro your buggn out. Try owning an iPod Touch then making those same comments. Productivity I agree WinMo has office apps so yeah I'll say that's a plus. But Web Browsing? There is NO browser that comes with any Windows Mobile phone that can compare to Mobile Safari.

And before anyone runs out screaming Skyfire remember that it A) Doesn't come built in and B) not everyone likes it (I actually find it to be quite slow and flash isn't a big deal to me).

As far as customizing, I agree WinMo is definitely more open but while my iPod Touch is jailbroken I haven't had any urge to do anything too crazy as far as themes in WinterBoard. The UI works the way it is and it works pretty well. The reason why it feels like a laptop in your hand is because the **** ways a ton. Seriously the TP feels like the heaviest phone I've ever owned, even my Mogul seemed to have it's weight distributed more.

Re: What is microsoft doing?
 

i found this comparison in the forum somewhere , it is good and related to our topic

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows CE; IEMobile 7.11) Sprint MP6950SP)

Now Google is merging the two worlds togather. I would even say Google is taking over the world.



to be fair Microsoft only lost 2% of the mobile market. Also WinMo is moving at light speed in terms of updating the OS in comparison to just 2 years ago.



Look at WinMo 2 years ago and look at it now. Do you see how dramatic the change was/is?


i once owned 2 iphones and a G1. I gave up both iphones for the G1, and dont regret it.

HTC will be increasing their production of Android handsets over the next few years, along with other mobile handset makers. Apple and Microsoft are facing stiff competition.

Who will win? The users, us.


finance tip: Get you some shares in HTC. Fire your Broker if he mentions Nokia and their OS.

Re: What is microsoft doing?
 

Are you really bringing a lighter into a room with gas?


That has no relation or bearing on this topic. As I pointed out earlier. The Iphone/Touch are excellent media & entertainment devices ( I love my Ipod Touch) Winmo could definitely take a page out of their book.

..On the Other hand Apple has crippled their devices by removing multitasking... Really Apple? Is the battery life that bad? Thank god I have programs like backgrounder so I can multitask on my Ipod Touch.

I use my TP 2 for Business related tasks & it performs like a charm. I sure wish it could perform like the Iphone in terms of what I like to call a fluid experience, though...

Re: What is microsoft doing?
 

I just don't think windows mobile and the devices were ever designed to do what the IPod Touch and IPhone were designed to do. One thing for sure is windows mobile devices never included a great graphics chip capable of handling 3D applications or games (I realize the TP has a graphics chip). I guess I have to give credit were credit is do and apple hands down took that market and it paid off. The thing that is disappointing is how long it is taking MS to respond to the IPhone as far as software. MS needs to step it up and develop a OS for mobile devices with GPUs. The devices are designed today with fast processors its just terrible code slowing them down. Mobile 6.5 is a step in the right direction but there taking way to long getting it out.

I truly believe that the Zune HD will be competitive with the IPod Touch in time. The Zune HD has the 3D capacity to play games since the chip was developed by NVidia. If only the Zune was a phone as well.

Re: What is microsoft doing?
 

To be honest, there is far more involved in a Windows based processor than with others' products, which generally means that you have to take the good with the bad until technology is able to catch up with our demands which involves providing EVERYTHING and affordably.

My 1st ever SmartPhone was a Samsung Delve which I bought in late spring. I loved many aspects of it, but quickly realized that I needed more... MUCH MUCH MORE!

2 weeks ago I gave it to my wife and I went to buy the new BB Storm that everyone seemed to rave about. Umm, everyone that never actually played w/ one that is. The Storm was the worst phone I have ever used, and it immediately soured me on Blackberrys before I ever really got a chance to get a feel for them. After 3 days of hell, I went back to Verizon and swapped the Storm for the HTC TP and I'm in love with this phone!

A couple of months ago I bought a Netbook, but it's so painfully slow that it's simply too difficult to do what I need to do, when I need to do it. The TP on the otherhand is actually faster. Are the graphics up to par..? Nope, but it's a workhorse that does so much more, so I can "forgive" the lack of a pristine graphics chip.

I've seen over and over where so many users talk about how hot the TP gets as well as how quickly the battery runs down. If they were to use a superior graphics chip, I'm pretty sure that it would run a lot hotter and eat the battery much quicker as well.

Again, it's a tradeoff.

I remember my very first cell phone back in 1991, and being a Radio Shack bag phone, it was a lot heavier and did a whole lot less! :D

Re: What is microsoft doing?
 

QFT

I respect the Iphone/Itouch but I would never trade my TP in....since it has a keyboard. I can do alot of full computer things with this little gizmo at full computer speed. I know that WinMo will catch back up, and if they made TP with snapdragon then I'd upgrade but the TP2 is not an upgrade at all, I'd even call it a downgrade, since you lose keys from the keyboard (lower productivity) and you lose pixels though gain screen size (iphone?)

Re: What is microsoft doing?
 

The reason MS is taking so long to respond in essence...is because they are pussies. Sorry that's the only way to put it. They are at the mercy of ODMs like HTC who license WM from them and in turn SOUR it's name by putting crappy processors and not paying for video drivers for graphics processors ALREADY present in our devices.

Microsoft never sat down and created a MANDATORY list of minimum specs, well they learned their lessons and manned their nuts up and made a list of specs each device must meet to license WM7, if a device doesn't meet those requirements the ODM cannot put WM7 on it.

**Also the TP2 has a larger screen than the TP1 so I don't get how one loses any pixels. The TP has a 640x480 screen while the TP2 has a 800x480 screen.**

I'm a WinMo user that tells it like it is, a bunch of fanboys on here live in this fantasy world where Windows Mobile 6.1 is "teh shiz" but to be honest it really isn't and 6.5 isn't that much different.

Re: What is microsoft doing?
 

One would think there is a qualcomm employee out there that has a TP or a TP2 with the video drivers. But getting someone to find them and having them to let them go will be a different story...

Re: What is microsoft doing?
 

Really good post, and I'd have to agree with you on most of it. I do have to disagree on the web browser though. I've also had a 1st gen touch since the week they released and I prefer the WM browsers by far. I never use IE, but Skyfire and Opera are pretty good in my opinion, and with Skyfire if there is a video link on a news story I'm able to watch it without any problem. Even though the video experience is better on the touch I still primarily use my phone for watching movies because it's so much easier to just drag and drop the files on my phone, and I dont even have to worry about converting them to any specific format thanks to TCPMP. If the iPhone got flash support and true multitasking, as well as some actual user customization I might have to reconsider my stance. As it is now though I'll stick with WM and see what WM7 looks like.

Re: What is microsoft doing?
 

It's quite simple really.

The origins and core functions of WinMo have always bee business and enterprise.

It is only with WM6.5 now that "consumer" interests are taking center stage. With WM7, it will be the main focus of development, including all the advanced hardware and OS features (not even seen on the iPhone).

Why not ask the same question about RIM and Blackberry to keep it fair? It's the same answer for them too. Shoot, they have even worse browsers in addition to games. Point of fact: WM6.1 aka "Crossbow" was called such because MS was "taking aim at RIM" with that one, hence the concentration on Exchange, email, remote wipe, etc.

But WinMo till this point has not been driven by consumer interests. It's a conscious choice by MS, but now they have the "business end" locked down are moving to consumer stuff. WM6.5 is a taste; WM7 is the full realization.

Different platforms have different goals. It's more by a vacuum of alternatives years ago that WM became a consumer OS--we all wanted a mobile computer and MS was there. Apple, Palm and Google came along years later and made their own "consumer OS" because the market was finally there (not just niche).

The iPhone is based literally on OS X so thereby can handle more graphics, etc. WM5/6.x is based on WinCE 5 which is a complete mobile based system, not a desktop OS. WM7 (hopefully WinCE 7, but probably WinCE 6.x) will be much more powerful and will be married to advanced hardware to deliver that iPhone-level experience (and beyond).