death of wm
 

I have been an avid wm user, since wm5 I currently have a tp2. I loathed the iphone loved the freedom, but been playing with android since it has hit the shelves, and with the anticpation of the evo, I take a trip to my nearest verizon store atleast once a weak to play with android 2.1 on the incredible, I love it...
imo, microsoft has been trying to deliver wm7 for the las almost 3 years, and they are trying to follow apples model by locking things down and controlling as much as possible, android instead is giving the consumers what they want, ie flash, android will be the most popular os by the end of the year no matter what apple does with their next gen device they will continue to loose market share
and as for wm7 even with the screenshots and sample vids we have seen so far im just not impressed and with the 1st wm7 not due until 4q10 not good

Re: death of wm
 

agreed

Re: death of wm
 

Na... no way.. Just for the time being..

Not saying they will ever get on top again though.. MS will always be around pushing.

Re: death of wm
 

Here is my take; Apple has proved the closed platform can be profitable in the mobile market. I think Microsoft really has the power to to create a nice closed system. I Cant stand that sort of closed platform, but if they build it somewhere between apple and android it will have success.

Re: death of wm
 

The problem with M$ strategy for WP7 is not only the fact that it is a closed platform but so far they are aiming for what iphone did when it just came out..so they are fighting a force that is #1 today but fighting them yesterday.

Not only that Android proved that a pc type platform can be popular as well if done right.

I mean no matter how you look at, M$ is the sore looser here...

In the end they will enter a market aimed to fight the iPhone while Android gets all the old wm users and starts fighting them for regular users.

Not to mention, WP7 partner list does not seem to favor M$ 1 bit..unless they can get LG or Dell to run them exclusively there will always be more Android phones then WP7 phones.

Re: death of wm
 

Yeah, as much as I love winmo, microsoft really f'd up on this one. They had so many years to come up with new innovative ideas but they sat on their asses being lazy since they were the only big players in the mobile market for a while. The iphone came out and it was lacking so many things but it worked perfect for the average person that didn't know jack about a pda, as a matter of fact the iphone is kinda like the "pda for dummies", again though it did what it was suppose to do with not that much hastle or even a learning curve. And with android being open source, how can you lose? The possibilities are endless. I hope microsoft hits a homerun with winmo7 but I am starting to believe that it may be a little too late for them but who knows, they got deep pockets so anything is possible. We will see

Re: death of wm
 

In my opinion the only thing that apple really proved is that you can sell anything with effective marketing and they are better than that compared to anyone else period. Hell I can guarantee that if apple could some how release a product like the ppc-6700 apache and called it the i-brick, it will get crazy good reviews and fanboys will be spending the night camping trying to get one. Apple is the master of marketing, I will give them that.

Re: death of wm
 

Well another fail on M$ side is their partners like HP, Dell, Compaq and etc..they are all developing PDA's...did not one of them think..lets put a GSM/CDMA chip in it and get it on a cellphone provider?


I mean HTC was a nobody and they were selling the phones through 3rd party distributors who generically branded them. Thats why I always say HTC grew at M$ expense.

If Dell would have released a phone in the US back then it would sell like hotcakes.

Re: death of wm
 

Apple is saying its not the hardware its the software and I agree they have some of the best marketing campaigns. People just eat those ads. Still a WM fan.

Re: death of wm
 

It is true but WM relies a LOT on hardware and as it is way bulkier then most other OS. I mean if HTC would have released the phone with better hardware it would have made the difference. But at the time HTC was just starting and only did minor hardware improvements with each revision. Most PDA's had at least 2x the processing of the phones.

If WM debuted as a phone as an HD2 is now it would have had much different reception. I mean even if they added a bit more ram and licensed the drivers it would have made a difference.

Re: death of wm
 

3 years?? so before winmo 6 or 6.1 they were trying to come out with 7?? i had a mogul 3 yrs ago, they definietly werent trying then

Re: death of wm
 

They are going to be dealt a serious blow the coming months due to the increase of Android phones into the mainstream market that's for sure. Although I wouldn't count them out completely when they finally get around to releasing WM7. They should have released WM7 the beginning of the year actually instead of rehashing WM 6 all this time. Its going to be harder to get back all these WM defectors.

Re: death of wm
 

Moved to the general Android forum, though I may move it again to Off Topic, depending on how the conversation continues.

Re: death of wm
 

Its funny you say the iphone is a pda for dummies. This is what I was telling a friend that said winmo sucked compared to iphone. We're not saying that the people who own a iphone are dumb, but it really doesnt take any know how or knowledge to use an iphone. It's just an ipod with a phone app.

Anyway, I've been using winmo for over 10yrs and I agree with the title of this thread. If feels like winmo is dying. I never thought I would switch to an android phone, let alone a phone with no hardware keyboard. I also came off my Sero plan. It's crazy what a really awesome phone will do. I switched OS, dropped my mandatory need for a hardware keyboard and changed my monthly plan. If only HTC was able to release some snapdragon winmo phones a year earlier.

Re: death of wm
 

Long time WM user and supporter but I'm done. Iphone is a great product cant deny that. matter of fact, I even own a few apple products. But partnering with AT&T is a no go for me. I refuse to slave to ATT and Apple greed. secondly, I want my freedom. freedom to get porn if I want, flash if I like. I was hoping that MS can kick Apple's rear end instead M$ trying so hard to be Apple when it comes to mobile. i.e No cut n paste? most users dont use it? whats wrong with you. HTC and other cant put their own interface? like sense? thats's too much of an bad apple for me. Beside, at the moment M$ is too far behind and on the wrong path. Therefore, Android is the only option, Evo that is.

Re: death of wm
 

well 3 years ago the world didn't even know about the iphone (first ad's ran june '07)
iphone=internet phone. nothing smart about it, just designed to play music and surf the internet. (well except for flash content that is..)
good place to mention that jobs was activly working on integrating apple to phones for as long as wm has actually been available for it.. (~2003)

umm, winmo 10 years ago was actually hpc 1.0 (handheld pc), were made by casio and resembled the htc shift except for the monochrome green screen and 4mb of total memory.
I really belive wm7 is much like the pc counterpart; a slimmed down core with tones of options for interfacing.. I'm supprised more discussion isn't happening about the kin, cuz eventhough most of us will never get one, it does look very much like a m$ experiment that will shape what wm7 actually becomes

ohh, and the freedom bit.. android isn't free. it comes with a cost; privacy. (although once rooted, the shackles can/could/have be(en) broken.)

Re: death of wm
 

I had a few pocket pc's. Did you not use those? It's not the winmo we know today, but still the humble beginnings. Therefore, IMO Winmo.

Re: death of wm
 

If it would've debuted it would've cost thousands of dollars.

Re: death of wm
 

as long as the phone makers continue to make the more powerful phones( TP3, Ominia 3, HDC 3) and so on WM will strive on. Those phones mentioned are powerbased phones. WM7 is a powerbased OS. Some people want just the easy stuff, downlaod a few apps here and there and so on. WM7 is innovation and for the power users. People for the longest said that MS will fall off with Windows. They went no where. Even with Vista they still didnt fall off. Vista was for the power users, WM7 is for the power users. The only way MS will fall off or die out is if they do it to themselves.

Re: death of wm
 

I would have to disagree.

As someone who has developed for Windows, web, and handheld devices for over 15 years I can say that Vista is an unqualified abomination to use unless you are happy to turn total control over to MS.

The same holds true for developing for Vista.

Re: death of wm
 

ahm...you do realize that the only reason M$ windows can get away with things like vista is due to the application compatibility. If someone like say Google released an OS that could natively run almost all Windows apps Windows would most likely die.

WM7 is not for power users..no power user uses locked down stuff. In the mobile space M$ is no where as big as they are in desktop space...As things are going them dieing out in the mobile space is extremely likely.

Re: death of wm
 

He did same approximately...But WM6 came out on February 12, 2007. I'm sure that development started close to that time for the successor, even if it was just on paper. Microsoft is well known for working on new OS's before it releases the existing one. WP7 was originally supposed to be out in 2009, how long do you think it takes to create an OS? They had to be working on something for at least a few years, even if they increased the release date to 2010 so IMO ~3 years is a good "guessing" date on when development first started. It's not our fault that the decided mid track to start again from the ground up, essentially neutering the OS...

Re: death of wm
 

WP7 USED to be the PC counterpart, it's broken now. A PC can run whatever you write on it. It's called having access to it's native code. That's been taken away from us, which makes the OS useless to most. Goodbye, wififofum, goodbye anything that Microsoft doesn't want us to have or use, they even crippled the APIs to what they feel we need access to. Not only that but wait till the carriers themselves ask Microsoft to remove an APP because they don't like it. You lose the same freedoms that Apple users lost when the iPhone came out. Android for now is the only platform right now (except for select AT&T versions) that still give you a choice.

Also what cost are you referring to about privacy? Google holds data big deal, who doesn't? Google is probably just being more forthcoming then it's competitors. Who really knows if Microsoft is deleting the data when they say they will. It's a phone, it's linked to a phone number, if Google, Microsoft or Apple wants your information they can probably easily obtain it. This isn't FERPA, HEPA or government regulated in any form, should we really trust any of them with our data? We do it anyway so I just don't buy into that concern...

Re: death of wm
 

Android is the future of next generation phones in my opinion.

Re: death of wm
 

Yep, Android is the future. And this coming from a guy with a WM phone on my hip. Yeah I have enjoyed all the versions of WM. I started with an Apache, which sits under my computer monitor in front of me. I got the old AKU 3.5 kitchen and built ROMs, which was very satisfying. I could customize it any way I wanted! I upgraded to the ppcKitchen when it came out and built ROMs. All to TRY to make WM work better. All the ROMs were much better than the stock ones, but all also had/have their problems. Something to do with WinMob probably. I look at these Android forums and see the difference in the way people discuss Android and considering it's relative youth as an OS it seems so much better. Soon I will know, as I contemplate leaving behind about 4 years worth of WM stuff, almost 5 Gig of programs and kitchens, and starting over. WP7 just does not interest me, and if I have to get new programs and apps to run on it because my stuff won't I'm done. might as well jump into the Android pool and get me a floating lounge chair and a drink with an umbrella.

Re: death of wm
 

yeah, but Dell, HP and Compaq all had their PDAs created and manufactured by HTC. HTC was always the brains behind the most innovative windows mobile hardware. They took that experience and started building for themselves as well as others.

The reason those companies never marketed a PDA phone was that the early versions of PPC/WM Phone edition was clunky and slow. Honestly... it took an innovative company to take initiative and work with MS to make it a better platform.

Re: death of wm
 

1) The iPhone is linux/unix based. It is more efficient and uses its better hardware much better than WM could ever dream of. The processor is better (A4 looks to be MUCH better than the snapdragon especially if it uses the hummingbird cpu, which it looks as if it will). The only REAL competitor for the iPhone is Android. It can do most of the things WM and Android can do and some they can't.

Unlike WP7 iPhone OS4 can copy/paste, multitask, change the UI, give full access to the file-system (jailbroken), etc...

2) Agreed, Android's openness is a very high point, and as I do praise the iPhone for it being a worthy smartphone if you know how to use it as such, I honestly prefer Android for how much I can tweak it, mod it, hack it, etc...

3) How much Flash content do you actually browse on your phone, and how much of it isn't available in other formats?


As far as the thread goes, I tend to agree that WM is dying, and other than the novelty and utter difference of WP7 keeping me interested, there isn't a whole lot to be excited about.

Re: death of wm
 

I am an avid Win phone user for years.

This is one of the most well said posts I've read.

I am by no means an Android or IPhone guru, however I also am simply not interested in WinMo. And the Iphone slave ship just ain't a boat ride this brotha wants to take.

I'm more interested in the open source and overall hackableness or customization allowed by Android. Evo will be my 1st device. I'll see what WM7 has to offer on their 2nd gen and what Sprint has to offer at that point. That will give time for someone to possibly jailbreak WM7. Who know what the posibilities are.

Re: death of wm
 

Yep, It's the open source that draws me in. It reminds me of the collaboration that resulted in the WM kitchens here and at xda, just on a much larger scale. All without the worries of Microsoft getting wind and peeing in the pool.

Re: death of wm
 

except for the google factor. they could always pee in the filter. lol

anyway, I was thinking about this the other day and I think the only thing dying in winmo is all the noobs in the last few years. I'd say the winmo population grown alot recently, it just could't be sustained due to lack of bells and whistles..

Re: death of wm
 

No I don't think that this will be the death of windows mobile, but I don't think that MS will ever be on top again. As usual they are a day late with their technologies and usually have to play catch up and gather a small crowd and hold them but usually nothing more. (more specifically with the mobile phone platform) I have been using MS since my sammy i660 smart phone (no touch screen) and have loved it. I have a large collection of free and paid programs that I will use. But with the rumors of windows mobile 7 not having any support for programs designed for previous versions of WM means I am going to have to find new programs to replace the ones I already use. If I am going to have to change that much I might as well try a new operating system for a new twist on the mobile platform.

Re: death of wm
 

heres my take (sorry for the length)

i can agree that wm(wp7 whatever) will never gain back the marketshare it once enjoyed but i think microsoft as a whole is in trouble as well. there just isnt enough innovation and synergy between all their product lines.

as much as people on this site rag on apple/macs/iphones, no one can deny that they know what theyre doing. as draconian as some of their policies are itunes really is an awesome concept. phone/mp3 player/tablet/mac all plug into the same ecosystem. with microsoft you have some much different crap that doesnt work together its ridiculous. windows live, zune, xbox (live), wm all are pretty much on thier own for the most part with no real connection to one another.

look at google EVERYTHING works together. all the google apps, android, chrome, all one big happy seamless family. m$ is trying i guess to bring everything under one roof with wp7 but i was just reading that there will be 2 markets, one for zune and a whole different one for xbox live. granted people in the know (us) probably wont have an issue with it but for the avg yuppie iphone user it really isnt gonna cut it.

next indicator of the fall of babylon is the kin phones. now i fully understand who these phones are marketed for but really come on m$. we were hearing about the 'project pink' phones for what like 3 yrs and this is the result?!?! are they smartphones or feature phones? seems like they have an identity crisis. but with now 'apps', no market, very little integration with their other brands, what kind of success can they really expect from these. add in the fact that you are looking at a minimum $70 or $80 plan for a phone marketed to teens that are most likely on their parents plan and you have a recipe for massive amounts of fail.

and whether any of us care to acknowledge it or not the ipad has brought tablets to the forefront and imo its no fad, their gonna be around and they will get better. then they decide to kill off one of their most anticipated projects, the courier, wtf microsoft.

sorry for the doom n gloom essay but i think the redmond folk are in some trouble over the next few years and it goes way beyond just windows mobile 6.5.111993030....

Re: death of wm
 

Re: death of wm
 

^^^ WOW! thanks for confirming my statement.

another thing to add in after seeing that. marketing. apple=amazing, google=getting there, microsoft=meh... as much as i hated those theres an app for that commercials they were highly effective, str8 forward, to the point. those winmo commericals the had with people in "excel" and "word" costumes were just plain bizzare

Re: death of wm
 

yeah.

if you thought those ads were good, then these ads by Mendez you know are going to be crazy. When that thing gets released it will be like Skynet going live with all the iPress. Apple and Google have ms DOMINATED in the pub department. One on tv and radio, the other bombards the internet with ads. MS just can't compete anymore.