Sprint gives over ALL YOUR information to Police - 8 million times!

[frazell]

Originally Posted by Unknown Zone

lol...why do you need to be extra careful....doing something illegal...going to kill someone in the next couple of days, jacking a bank...are you a terrorist...dont want to give out your next attack.

now days with post 911, this type of electronic survellance is just accected in todays world, well for me it is..and to tell you the truth I am glad they are doing this....we have no idea if it has saved lifes everyday or a business from being robbed or even a person from being killed...etc.

I am pretty sure the keyword "terrorist" got flagged somewhere in the internet world, but again, i accept this post 911 world we live in and will not be losing sleep over it and you should not neither.

It is people like you that are pushing the rapid end of this country. That is the first thing I always hear told to us as to why we should blindly accept the extreme powers government now exerts against us, the citizens. It is in our best interest to "keep out Terrorists." No one still has clearly, and by clearly I mean legally, offered an extremely limited definition of a terrorist and put in safeguards to ensure only that group is subject to this reversal of the bill of rights.

The part that is most terrifying that is never talked about is the implications this has for the country going forward. The US Constitution opens with this famous line "We the people of the United States" (emphasis mine) for a very important reason. The uniqueness of our form of government is it is an entity created by its citizens, for its citizens. Meaning the people are the master and the government is their creation and servant. This post-9/11 world, as you call it, has resulted in a usurpation of power by government.

We have quickly become a country where the government views its citizens as criminals. We all have to be monitored in an ever increasing manner because the terrorist can be anyone of us. With government wielding ever expanding power and it seeing us as its greatest threat we are on a very disastrous crash course. We can't have a proper functioning democracy without the protection of the basics rights that we have crafted over the last 200 years.

Without a severe correction this country cannot sustain itself in this state. We are setting ourselves up for either another civil war, overthrowing of our government, or conversion to some form of dictatorship. There just is no other outcome on this path.

Originally Posted by Unknown Zone

It just like having a surprise inspection in the military, just have everything squared way and you are good to go.

sure, I have no problem with them as long as they dont do it in the middle of the night...I have nothing to hide....I let them search my car..etc. every time I cross the checkpoint here in south texas when they ask, sure I get upset cause it just waist my time and delays my arrival but I an not worried about going to jail when they do it.

if they search my house and I go to jail for having illegals...drugs...bomb making material ....etc, well that is one less criminal off the streets or neighborhood and i have no one to blame but myself cause i took that path and i bet you would not have any issues with that if i was your next door neighbor.

now as for the ticket, you are just talking crazy talk and pulling stuff out of you know where....they would need more proof then just the gps data like a picture and that is not happening even you know that.

remember you are not forced to live in the usa, so if you rather live in another country because your upset that your rights are being misused..go ahead you can do it either by boat/plane/ or car...i am staying here in the good ole usa.

The 4th Amendment along with the whole Bill of Rights were enacted for a very straightforward reason. No citizen should live in perpetual fear that the government is constantly watching them with a threat of prosecution for crimes. Laws change and what is legal today might not be tomorrow.

There is a historical reason for that amendment. When our country broke away from the United Kingdom with our Declaration of Independence one of the chief reasons was the "show trials" that the king would have. Making every inch of their lives subject to criminal punishment from the government and in effect turning the police and judiciary into a tool of oppression.

To make you understand my basic point more clearly. I think it is important that you re-read the Declaration of Independence. Keep in mind the argument that Thomas Jefferson made against the King of England and the warning he laid to our newly forming Congress.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.

I added minor emphasis, but you really need to read the whole paragraph and document to get the proper understanding.

Also, where do you also get the authority to revoke US citizenship and grant citizenship in foreign countries? I'm not sure what planet you live on but I don't know of any industrialized country in the world today that just lets anyone in. So, in reality, no you can't just "pack up and leave"... Americans aren't considered refugees...

Even more troubling though is your desire to rid the country of dissenting opinions. Our democracy flourishes when all ideas are put on the table without fear of retribution. This country is the country of all its citizens not a select few.

Sorry for the long post!

[HBOOT]

democracy is a cool concept on paper, see how it is lived and it becomes just a word in this world.

[brent281]

Originally Posted by frazell

Without a severe correction this country cannot sustain itself in this state. We are setting ourselves up for either another civil war, overthrowing of our government, or conversion to some form of dictatorship. There just is no other outcome on this path.

you are kidding me right, are you talking about the USA? overthrowing of government? you do know we elect government officials? also, i can imagine this civil war you talk about, cell phone users around the united states will band together to take on law enforcement, firing muskets at each other until one surrenders.

[frazell]

Originally Posted by brent281

you are kidding me right, are you talking about the USA? overthrowing of government? you do know we elect government officials? also, i can imagine this civil war you talk about, cell phone users around the united states will band together to take on law enforcement, firing muskets at each other until one surrenders.

I'm not sure if you read my whole post or just pulled out the section you liked. It was rather long so I can understand the reluctance to read and digest it all...

I'm not talking about cell phone users specifically. I'm talking about the government and their new look at the populus as their primary enemy alongside the removal of almost every right afforded to us in the Bill of Rights. This can only go on for so long...

As the famous poem goes...

First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak out for me.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_they_came...

Right now we're told to give up all these rights to fight terrorists. It is only a matter of time before this immense amount of information they are gathering and accessing on us without due process get pushed into other areas. As it has continued to do so.

There has to come a correction point. Either we accept it and the government turns into some form of government where we don't have the freedoms we used to or the people will end up revolting until we get them back.

As Thomas Jefferson so famously said... People are wiling to suffer greatly under a government because people don't like to rise up and change them often, but the injustices can only continue for so long before they do so.

Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Declara...d_States)#Text

It is important for our country to remember why we were founded in the first place. We came into being by the government of Great Britan continuing to usurpe the power of the people.

I'm not saying the correction is coming today or even in the next decade. I'm not fortune teller. I'm just acknoqledging the path we're on.

[Imaginos]

Originally Posted by frazell

+

I'm sorry, I can't seem to find anything in this thread that is paving the way to civil war or an overthrow of the government. Exactly what right is it that you are claiming is being trampled and inspiring you to form a militia over?

I'm very sorry you distrust the government, the police, mass transit, communications providers, mass media, and whatever else you can think of.

In my daily life I have only one big concern when it comes to trust - that which I place in my fellow drivers on the road. They will kill me in an instant without a thought and with no effort at all.

[frazell]

Originally Posted by Imaginos

I'm sorry, I can't seem to find anything in this thread that is paving the way to civil war or an overthrow of the government. Exactly what right is it that you are claiming is being trampled and inspiring you to form a militia over?

I'm very sorry you distrust the government, the police, mass transit, communications providers, mass media, and whatever else you can think of.

In my daily life I have only one big concern when it comes to trust - that which I place in my fellow drivers on the road. They will kill me in an instant without a thought and with no effort at all.

I was responding to the initial claims by Unknown Zone that it was perfectly fine that the government could do anything they wanted with 9/11 as a blank check. That's why my initial comments were directly to him.

Also, I'm not sure why you branded me as not trusting mass transit and various things. I don't trust or mistrust entities that aren't human. I reserve that for individual people.

I'm just stating my observations...