Evo 4g/Evo 3D

[BlackDynamite]

Originally Posted by gTen

I dont think Apache had hard spl :P..but I think it was just flash and go...

But every single HTC device was harder and harder to unlock from then on...generation by generation. Now with the G2 they have taken things up a notch...and with the Tbolt and the Incredible S they are right now on par with the Motorola phones..aka Signed boot loaders..from what I read only reason they were able to unlock tbolt was because they had a pre-release bootloader that they overwrite the original...so come june anything is possible :/

HTC has had signed bootloaders for a long time now. But they conveniently "leak" one to over write it. This is nothing new. HTC has been extremely kind to the modding community from day 1. People are hacking their software and passing it around all over the internet, and yet not one single complaint from HTC about it. If you think we have something to worry about when it comes to hacking HTC phones, then I don't know what to tell you. But I will point out that for all of the talk about how hard it is to hack them, every single one has been hacked, with most of them being hacked before it was even released. If HTC was trying to put a stop to that, it would have been stopped years ago.

Not only could HTC implement the e-fuse that would essentially kill all hacking if they wanted to, but they would be issuing orders to sites like this one and xda that openly pass their Sense software around. The fact that none of that has happened over the years should tell you that there is nothing to worry about.

Originally Posted by shane6374

The G2 was an F'n pain in the a$$ to root. Then once you have it rooted you can almost forget returning it to stock. Everytime my gf asks me to look at her phone I tell her how much I hate it.

What CM said on twitter is so true. At least Sammy hasn't decided to stop us yet.

Another example would be the month + it took to get the hard spl on the tp2. Let's face it, HTC just does not want us to root, flash or do anything on their phones anymore.

The worse part about it is that it was the modding community that made htc phones so popular.

Correction- it did not take a month+ to get hard spl on the Touch Pro 2. The GSM version had hard spl shortly after release. The CDMA version took so long because the people who worked on it refused to release it until they had a licensing system in place and a way to charge for it. There was a working version without a licensing system for a while before that but nobody was allowed to share it because it was considered warez. That was a dark time, lol.

[shane6374]

Originally Posted by BlackDynamite

HTC has had signed bootloaders for a long time now. But they conveniently "leak" one to over write it. This is nothing new. HTC has been extremely kind to the modding community from day 1. People are hacking their software and passing it around all over the internet, and yet not one single complaint from HTC about it. If you think we have something to worry about when it comes to hacking HTC phones, then I don't know what to tell you. But I will point out that for all of the talk about how hard it is to hack them, every single one has been hacked, with most of them being hacked before it was even released. If HTC was trying to put a stop to that, it would have been stopped years ago.

Not only could HTC implement the e-fuse that would essentially kill all hacking if they wanted to, but they would be issuing orders to sites like this one and xda that openly pass their Sense software around. The fact that none of that has happened over the years should tell you that there is nothing to worry about.


Correction- it did not take a month+ to get hard spl on the Touch Pro 2. The GSM version had hard spl shortly after release. The CDMA version took so long because the people who worked on it refused to release it until they had a licensing system in place and a way to charge for it. There was a working version without a licensing system for a while before that but nobody was allowed to share it because it was considered warez. That was a dark time, lol.

You are correct about the licencing, and I was speaking of the cdma tp2. Still, the tp2 was more difficult than it's predicecesors. Now the phones are getting even more difficult.

Wasn't it htc that tried to shut down shipped roms last year?

Sent from my Epic 4G running the midNIGHT rom via Tapatalk

[BlackDynamite]

Originally Posted by shane6374

You are correct about the licencing, and I was speaking of the cdma tp2. Still, the tp2 was more difficult than it's predicecesors. Now the phones are getting even more difficult.

Wasn't it htc that tried to shut down shipped roms last year?

Sent from my Epic 4G running the midNIGHT rom via Tapatalk

Shut down shipped ROMs? I am not aware of that. HTC is known for "leaking" ROMs ahead of time, and then those ROMs getting rooted before they are even released. See the Evo's "leaked" Gingerbread ROM for a recent example of this. I honestly can't think of HTC ever trying to shut anything down. And that is really saying something, considering sites like xda (and even this site) got to be pretty huge by hacking HTC software and letting users freely share it. It's been going on for many years now, and I can't think of a single time HTC ever complained about it or tried to stop it.

I actually remember a few times when Microsoft tried to put a stop to it when people were sharing unreleased versions of WinMo (which were likely leaked from the same people leaking the HTC ROMs throughout the years). But HTC has never tried to hinder development.

I can understand the carriers telling HTC to lock the phones down or they won't carry them. I would be shocked if that hasn't happened. But I can also see HTC locking the phones down to satisfy the carriers, and then "leaking" the tools to unlock the phones.

I'm not the slightest bit worried about not being able to hack/customize/whatever an HTC phone. It has never happened in the past, so I don't see any reason to worry about it happening in the future. And if it did happen, lots of customers (myself included) would drop HTC and move on to another manufacturer.

[gTen]

Originally Posted by BlackDynamite

HTC has had signed bootloaders for a long time now. But they conveniently "leak" one to over write it. This is nothing new. HTC has been extremely kind to the modding community from day 1. People are hacking their software and passing it around all over the internet, and yet not one single complaint from HTC about it. If you think we have something to worry about when it comes to hacking HTC phones, then I don't know what to tell you. But I will point out that for all of the talk about how hard it is to hack them, every single one has been hacked, with most of them being hacked before it was even released. If HTC was trying to put a stop to that, it would have been stopped years ago.

What other HTC phone has a signed locked bootloader and signed recovery image in the past?

Also its not a carrier thing as International versions of new phones are carrying these protections as well..

Aka the trend is every generation, unlocking has become harder and harder...right now the tbolt and incredible s are locked down on par with Droid X...the next generation by trend will be even more locked down by trend.

[QUOTE[
Not only could HTC implement the e-fuse that would essentially kill all hacking if they wanted to, but they would be issuing orders to sites like this one and xda that openly pass their Sense software around. The fact that none of that has happened over the years should tell you that there is nothing to worry about.
[/QUOTE]

HTC Sends Cease & Desist to Hackers Shipped-ROMs

it has happened...though they werent trying t shut it down..it was a cease and desist..long story...

[shane6374]

Thank gTen. That link is what I was refering to. No HTC didn't try to shut the site down, but it still would have severly cripled the site had they not come to an agreement.

Sent from my Epic 4G running the midNIGHT rom via Tapatalk

[BlackDynamite]

Originally Posted by gTen

What other HTC phone has a signed locked bootloader and signed recovery image in the past?

Also its not a carrier thing as International versions of new phones are carrying these protections as well..

Aka the trend is every generation, unlocking has become harder and harder...right now the tbolt and incredible s are locked down on par with Droid X...the next generation by trend will be even more locked down by trend.


HTC Sends Cease & Desist to Hackers Shipped-ROMs

it has happened...though they werent trying t shut it down..it was a cease and desist..long story...

Are you serious? lol, You don't have to go back too far to find another example of this. The Evo was rooted using this same exact method. It has a signed bootloader but another one was "leaked" and used.

As for that letter, I don't know what to make of it. I have never heard of that site so I don't know what they were doing that upset HTC. Heck, i don't even know if that letter is real. Like I said, this site and xda have both been going strong for years without a peep from HTC. Xda is even named after an HTC phone! And even in the link, the author of the article finds it curious that sites like xda have never heard a complaint. So take that letter with a grain of salt.

Again, there has never been an HTC Android or WinMo phone that didn't get rooted/hardspl/whatever you want to call it. So all of this "concern" that we will suddenly not be able to root one is a bunch of unwarranted paranoia. HTC has been the most friendly manufacturer to the hacking and modding community over the years. So to say we have to be worried about being able to root the next htc phone is akin to wearing a tin foil hat.

I say again, xda is probably the biggest smartphone hacking site on the net. Their site is named after an HTC phone and up until pretty recently they only had HTC forums. And yet they have never had any problems whatsoever from HTC (they have got a few cease and desist letters from Microsoft over the years though). Same thing with this site- never a peep from HTC.

You can be concerned if you want to. I'll wait until I have an actual reason to be concerned. People can say what they want about how hard it is to root HTC phones. But the fact remains that there has never been an HTC phone that didn't get rooted, with most of them getting rooted before they were even released. Including the Evo, and the Thunderbolt, which both had the scary signed bootloaders that we should be worried about, lol.

[gTen]

Originally Posted by BlackDynamite

Are you serious? lol, You don't have to go back too far to find another example of this. The Evo was rooted using this same exact method. It has a signed bootloader but another one was "leaked" and used.

I thought Evo was locked bootloader + signed images..you sure the bootloader itself was signed?

As for that letter, I don't know what to make of it. I have never heard of that site so I don't know what they were doing that upset HTC. Heck, i don't even know if that letter is real. Like I said, this site and xda have both been going strong for years without a peep from HTC. Xda is even named after an HTC phone! And even in the link, the author of the article finds it curious that sites like xda have never heard a complaint. So take that letter with a grain of salt.

Shipped-Roms was owned by Conflipper, now it belongs to ppcgeeks >.> lol

Again, there has never been an HTC Android or WinMo phone that didn't get rooted/hardspl/whatever you want to call it. So all of this "concern" that we will suddenly not be able to root one is a bunch of unwarranted paranoia. HTC has been the most friendly manufacturer to the hacking and modding community over the years. So to say we have to be worried about being able to root the next htc phone is akin to wearing a tin foil hat.

I disagree with HTC being the most developer friendly..for one HTC and Motorola devices are hardest to root out of them all and they dont follow the GPL..aka release source code on time....the only reason we used HTC was because it literally was our only option :/

I say again, xda is probably the biggest smartphone hacking site on the net. Their site is named after an HTC phone and up until pretty recently they only had HTC forums. And yet they have never had any problems whatsoever from HTC (they have got a few cease and desist letters from Microsoft over the years though). Same thing with this site- never a peep from HTC.

They havent yet..but they are changing over the years..not saying that they will...

You can be concerned if you want to. I'll wait until I have an actual reason to be concerned. People can say what they want about how hard it is to root HTC phones. But the fact remains that there has never been an HTC phone that didn't get rooted, with most of them getting rooted before they were even released. Including the Evo, and the Thunderbolt, which both had the scary signed bootloaders that we should be worried about, lol.

um..FYI those root methods were not perma root..they were temporary roots..but if you want to count time..then some Android phones were rooted 1 year before they came out..why? because all the other phones root using the exact same method...except the HTC phones..and I think Motorola...

There is a room for concern because it gets harder every single time...

[BlackDynamite]

Originally Posted by gTen

I thought Evo was locked bootloader + signed images..you sure the bootloader itself was signed?

Well I'm not the one who rooted it so I can't say for 100% certainty, but I read on xda that the Evo had a signed boot loader exactly like the G2 and Thunderbolt, and all were rooted using the same method- a leaked image.

Originally Posted by gTen

Shipped-Roms was owned by Conflipper, now it belongs to ppcgeeks >.> lol

And yet ppcgeeks had never had any problems from htc. So that leads me to believe that if shipped roms had trouble from htc, it wasn't related to them hacking htc software or devices.

Originally Posted by gTen

I disagree with HTC being the most developer friendly..for one HTC and Motorola devices are hardest to root out of them all and they dont follow the GPL..aka release source code on time....the only reason we used HTC was because it literally was our only option :/

HTC devices may be hard to root, but they are still extremely friendly to developers. They "leak" the images needed to root the devices, and every ROM and even updates to ROMs get leaked well ahead of release (like the Evo gingerbread ROM for example).

Originally Posted by gTen

They havent yet..but they are changing over the years..not saying that they will...

I don't think they're changing. They lock the devices at the carriers' request, then they "leak" the key to the lock to the community. Until some HTC device is unrootable, or uses an e-fuse (like motorola) then there is no reason to worry.

Originally Posted by gTen

um..FYI those root methods were not perma root..they were temporary roots..but if you want to count time..then some Android phones were rooted 1 year before they came out..why? because all the other phones root using the exact same method...except the HTC phones..and I think Motorola...

The method it gets rooted is not relevant. The bottom line is it still gets rooted, and often before the device is even released. It may be a few more steps to root it, but it still gets rooted.

Originally Posted by gTen

There is a room for concern because it gets harder every single time...

It does not get harder every single time, lol. The Evo used the same method as the Thunderbolt.

[gTen]

Originally Posted by BlackDynamite

Well I'm not the one who rooted it so I can't say for 100% certainty, but I read on xda that the Evo had a signed boot loader exactly like the G2 and Thunderbolt, and all were rooted using the same method- a leaked image.

Didn't G2 have the thing where the phone would return to stock if you modify it in any way? thats new...also Ive searched the web and I only see 1 person claim the Evo bootloader is signed on xda..everywhere else I read just says locked...so oreo...

And yet ppcgeeks had never had any problems from htc. So that leads me to believe that if shipped roms had trouble from htc, it wasn't related to them hacking htc software or devices.

Let me reiterate..you mentioned sense..that C&D was on sense...not hacking...they cant stop people from hacking due to the court ruling.

HTC devices may be hard to root, but they are still extremely friendly to developers. They "leak" the images needed to root the devices, and every ROM and even updates to ROMs get leaked well ahead of release (like the Evo gingerbread ROM for example).

All the other manufacturers leaked roms as well..nothing new...its like someone locking you in jail then releases you..would you call tat being nice?

I don't think they're changing. They lock the devices at the carriers' request, then they "leak" the key to the lock to the community. Until some HTC device is unrootable, or uses an e-fuse (like motorola) then there is no reason to worry.

Thats what people thought too..but the carrierless unlocked version overseas was locked in the same manner as well..so the assumption is that its HTC...They already copied everything else from motorola in terms of locking..so I guess efuse is next step?

The method it gets rooted is not relevant. The bottom line is it still gets rooted, and often before the device is even released. It may be a few more steps to root it, but it still gets rooted.

Well it does matter...I mean its much safer to root when they dont pull stunts like that :/..and temp root is not same as perma root...

It does not get harder every single time, lol. The Evo used the same method as the Thunderbolt.

it does use same method and more..as I said every single time they add more to the locking of the phone..so it uses same method + more...

[BlackDynamite]

Originally Posted by gTen

Didn't G2 have the thing where the phone would return to stock if you modify it in any way? thats new...also Ive searched the web and I only see 1 person claim the Evo bootloader is signed on xda..everywhere else I read just says locked...so oreo...

It was no different from the Evo. The G2 went back to stock, the Evo didn't let you make the change in the first place. The rooting technique is the same for both- use a temporary root method, and then flash a new image during the recovery which allows for a more permanent change. When the Evo was first rooted, it was only a temporary root that didn't even survive a reboot, and it ran automatically every time the device rebooted.

Originally Posted by gTen

Let me reiterate..you mentioned sense..that C&D was on sense...not hacking...they cant stop people from hacking due to the court ruling.

And that doesn't change my point at all. Not sure why you even mentioned it. Look at xda. Heck look at this very site. Sense is being tossed around in almost every ROM thread on both of these sites. Even unreleased versions of Sense, and versions from other devices. Yet neither site has heard a peep from HTC. In fact, both sites keep getting "leaked" versions of HTC updates/ROMs/Sense/etc to play with long before they even get officially released. You think these sites are just on an incredible lucky streak to somehow get every single HTC update and ROM for every device long before it gets released? I tend to think the simplest answer is usually the correct answer- occams razor. In this case, that would be that HTC is the friendliest manufacturer to hackers and they leak these on purpose directly to the people who can actually do something with it.

Originally Posted by gTen

All the other manufacturers leaked roms as well..nothing new...its like someone locking you in jail then releases you..would you call tat being nice?

It's not at all like that, lol. HTC leaking ROMs is not even comparable to anyone else leaking ROMs. Like I said, we had the latest version of Sense running on Evo's several months ago (thanks to leaked ROMs from other devices). We've had the Evo's gingerbread ROM (sense and all) leaked and running for a while now too. And not a peep from HTC. It's actually expected that pretty much every HTC device will have it's software hacked and ported to older devices. And it usually happens before the device is even released.

Originally Posted by gTen

Thats what people thought too..but the carrierless unlocked version overseas was locked in the same manner as well..so the assumption is that its HTC...They already copied everything else from motorola in terms of locking..so I guess efuse is next step?

HTC will never go to an efuse. Again, they have not made any effort whatsoever to stop the hacking that goes on. On the contrary, they have "leaked" signed images for all of their devices which basically guarantees they will be hacked. If xda or ppcgeeks ever gets a cease and desist from HTC, then you will have a point. But they are the opposite. Not only are they not getting cease and desist letters, but they are getting ROMs, updates, software, etc, leaked every time there is something new.

Originally Posted by gTen

Well it does matter...I mean its much safer to root when they dont pull stunts like that :/..and temp root is not same as perma root...

The temp root is used to apply the permanent root. In a nutshell, the device gets temporarily rooted, and while it is rooted a new recovery image is flashed that has a signed image and allows flashing custom ROMs.

Originally Posted by gTen

it does use same method and more..as I said every single time they add more to the locking of the phone..so it uses same method + more...

They aren't adding any more, lol. It's the same technique being used to root these phones.

When there is an HTC phone that can't be rooted, then you might have a point. But it seems pretty crazy to get all worried about it when every single one has been rooted, often before it was even released.

I'll tell you what- you worry about it and I won't. When it gets released, we'll see if you wasted your time worrying about it, or if I wasted my time not worrying about it. Looking at the history, I'd say it's a pretty safe bet which one of us would have wasted their time and which one of us wouldn't have. There is no reason at all to worry about this. The next Evo will absolutely be rooted, and probably before it is even released.