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Old 06-18-2009, 08:20 PM
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Are forced Firmware updates over the air illegal?

http://www.phonenews.com/are-palms-forced-pre-updates-illegal-yeah-they-probably-are-8186/

Phonenews.com has a story about how palms forced firm ware updates can lead to the death of the phones user should the phone become bricked and cant dial 911.... it is an interesting read.... what are your views... it seems that with palm pre you can only delay the firmware update for 7 days and then it install regardless.....
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Old 06-18-2009, 09:50 PM
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Re: Are forced Firmware updates over the air illegal?

I think maybe you are referring to the OTA wipe that Palm offers, that bricked a phone...
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Old 06-18-2009, 10:16 PM
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Re: Are forced Firmware updates over the air illegal?

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Originally Posted by Insoc View Post
I think maybe you are referring to the OTA wipe that Palm offers, that bricked a phone...

no if you read the article link palm makes it mandatory that you do the update within 7 days. so the update installs even if you dont want it.... the issue is should the update fail and you need the phone for 911 and it is bricked because of a failed update will palm be held responsible should something happen to you
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Old 06-19-2009, 01:37 AM
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Re: Are forced Firmware updates over the air illegal?

I disagree whole heartedly. A phone can die for any number of reasons.
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Old 06-19-2009, 10:32 AM
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Re: Are forced Firmware updates over the air illegal?

Not to mention Palm offers a web doctor on their website that will restore any bricked Pre for you.
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Old 06-19-2009, 10:41 AM
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Re: Are forced Firmware updates over the air illegal?

Yes both sprint and palm will cover the replacement. Sprint provides a swap out through the advanced exchange program, as long as the phone is under one year old and its an electrical/mechanical failure,they will do it at no charge. Could be new or refurb. Palm will also cover for one year, same reason,just they will ship a new one to you instead of refurb. With palm you have send your device to them first.
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Old 06-19-2009, 05:12 PM
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Re: Are forced Firmware updates over the air illegal?

Quote:
Originally Posted by nxtech3 View Post
Yes both sprint and palm will cover the replacement. Sprint provides a swap out through the advanced exchange program, as long as the phone is under one year old and its an electrical/mechanical failure,they will do it at no charge. Could be new or refurb. Palm will also cover for one year, same reason,just they will ship a new one to you instead of refurb. With palm you have send your device to them first.

that is not the issue the issue is should the phone fail in the forced update and the user goes to use the phone to call 911 but the phone is bricked or dead because the forced update failed and that persons dies or is hurt in someway because they could not call 911 could palm be liable also the FCC has clear regulations on the ability to call 911.... please read the article in the link in the first post....
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Old 06-19-2009, 05:17 PM
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Re: Are forced Firmware updates over the air illegal?

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Originally Posted by caleb02 View Post
no if you read the article link palm makes it mandatory that you do the update within 7 days. so the update installs even if you dont want it.... the issue is should the update fail and you need the phone for 911 and it is bricked because of a failed update will palm be held responsible should something happen to you
No. They would only be liable for making your phone a brick. The funny thing is, it is not mandatory that we own a phone, so 911 has nothing to do with if the phone works or not. The phones are not 100% guaranteed to be able to call 911 at any given time, if that is YOUR reason for owning a cell phone, you might want to consider carrying a couple of phones on you, just in case.

Any number of things could fail with your cell phone as someone else stated.

Or, are you looking for a reason to deny Palm their control over your phone? That is an easy one... Don't buy it!
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Old 06-19-2009, 05:17 PM
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Re: Are forced Firmware updates over the air illegal?

I, personally, am going to have every firmware update within minutes of when it becomes available for manual download.

If the update "bricks my phone", for some reason, I will be at the Sprint store within several more minutes for a replacement. So it's not an issue to me.

Unless, I wreck on the way to the Sprint store... hmmm... hey you have a point.
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Old 06-19-2009, 05:22 PM
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Re: Are forced Firmware updates over the air illegal?

Quote:
Originally Posted by caleb02 View Post
that is not the issue the issue is should the phone fail in the forced update and the user goes to use the phone to call 911 but the phone is bricked or dead because the forced update failed and that persons dies or is hurt in someway because they could not call 911 could palm be liable also the FCC has clear regulations on the ability to call 911.... please read the article in the link in the first post....
Bah... Here comes SPAM! Source: http://www.fcc.gov/cgb/consumerfacts...ss911srvc.html

Background

The number of 911 calls placed by people using wireless phones has radically increased. Public safety personnel estimate that about 50 percent of the millions of 911 calls they receive daily are placed from wireless phones, and that percentage is growing.

For many Americans, the ability to call 911 for help in an emergency is one of the main reasons they own a wireless phone. Other wireless 911 calls come from “Good Samaritans” reporting traffic accidents, crimes or other emergencies. Prompt delivery of these and other wireless 911 calls to public safety organizations benefits the public by promoting safety of life and property.

Unique Challenges Posed by Wireless Phones

While wireless phones can be an important public safety tool, they also create unique challenges for public safety and emergency response personnel and for wireless service providers. Because wireless phones are mobile, they are not associated with one fixed location or address. A caller using a wireless phone could be calling from anywhere. While the location of the cell site closest to the caller may provide a very general indication of the caller’s location, that information is not usually specific enough for rescue personnel to deliver assistance to the caller quickly.

The FCC’s Wireless 911 Rules

As part of its efforts to improve public safety, the Federal Communications Commission (FCC) has adopted rules aimed at improving the reliability of wireless 911 services and the accuracy of the location information transmitted with a wireless 911 call. Such improvements enable emergency response personnel to provide assistance to 911 callers much more quickly.

The FCC’s wireless 911 rules apply to all wireless licensees, broadband Personal Communications Service (PCS) licensees, and certain Specialized Mobile Radio (SMR) licensees. Here are the specific requirements.

Basic 911 rules require wireless service providers to:

transmit all 911 calls to a Public Safety Answering Point (PSAP), regardless of whether the caller subscribes to the provider’s service or not.


Phase I Enhanced 911 (E911) rules require wireless service providers to:

within six months of a valid request by a PSAP, provide the PSAP with the telephone number of the originator of a wireless 911 call and the location of the cell site or base station transmitting the call.

Phase II E911 rules require wireless service providers to:

within six months of a valid request by a PSAP, provide more precise location information to PSAPs; specifically, the latitude and longitude of the caller. This information must be accurate to within 50 to 300 meters depending on the type of technology used.

by September 11, 2012, provide even more precise location information, specifically, information accurate to the closest PSAP. The FCC established a five year phase-in period for this requirement to allow wireless service providers more time to develop this capability. Wireless service providers must report to the FCC annually on their progress in supplying this more accurate location information for PSAPs with Phase II E911 capability.

Compliance

Wireless service providers may comply with certain FCC E911 rules by ensuring that 95 percent of their customers’ handsets are E911-capable (also referred to as location-capable). The FCC’s rules permit providers to choose how they will meet this requirement. Some providers may provide incentives to encourage customers without location-capable phones to obtain new, location-capable phones. For example, they may offer location-capable handsets at a discount. Some providers may choose to prevent reactivation of older handsets that don’t have E911 capability, or may adopt various other measures.

If a provider declines to reactivate a handset that is not location-capable, the FCC requires the provider to still deliver a 911 call from that handset to the appropriate PSAP.

The provider, however, may not be able to accurately and automatically determine your location for the PSAP. Therefore, when replacing your handset, you should always ask about the new handset's E911 capabilities.

Tips for 911 Calling

The FCC’s 911 rules for wireless service providers are being implemented over a period of several years. In addition, cities and states must update their PSAPs to receive caller identification and location information, a costly effort that can take several years to complete. Therefore, consumers that call 911 from a wireless phone should remember the following:

Tell the emergency operator the location of the emergency right away.

Give the emergency operator your wireless phone number so that, if the call gets disconnected, the operator can call you back.

If your wireless phone is not “initialized” (meaning you do not have a contract for service with a wireless service provider), and your emergency call gets disconnected, you must call the emergency operator back because the operator does not have your telephone number and cannot contact you.

To help public safety personnel allocate emergency resources, learn and use the designated number in your state for highway accidents or other non life-threatening incidents. Often, states reserve specific numbers for these types of incidents. For example, “#77” is the number used for highway accidents in Virginia. The number to call for non life-threatening incidents in your state can be found in the front of your phone book.

Refrain from programming your phone to automatically dial 911 when one button, such as the “9” key, is pressed. Unintentional wireless 911 calls, which often occur when auto-dial keys are inadvertently pressed, cause problems for emergency call centers.

If your wireless phone came pre-programmed with the auto-dial 911 feature already turned on, turn off this feature. Check your user manual to find out how.

Lock your keypad when you’re not using your wireless phone. This action also prevents accidental calls to 911.

Also, consider creating a contact in your wireless phone’s memory with the name “ICE” (in Case of Emergency) listing the phone numbers of people you want to be notified if there is an emergency.

P.S. Don't read into this too much. All is says is that the wireless provider needs to allow access to 911 even if the phone is not on their network, not that the phone must be in a working condition with a signal. Even unregistered phones must be able to dial 911, but they don't have to be working or with a signal.

Last edited by Insoc; 06-19-2009 at 05:30 PM.
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