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  #11 (permalink)  
Old 01-05-2008, 10:51 AM
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Im gonna have to agree.

The wm5 kitchens took a little bit for me to understand.

But with the wm6 kitchen the thing is almost fool proof If something is wrong it gives you an error. Ive cooked numerous roms with helmi's kitchen and loved all of it.

Plus you choose the programs you want and get rid of the ones you dont use.

Thank You kitchen developers.
Much appreciated.
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Old 01-05-2008, 06:25 PM
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Actually most of my buddies here in Santa Clara, CA are not kitchen users, and we're too busy/lazy do learn how to use one. The C&S ROMs just make our lives so much easier. If you look at most of the posts in Rob's thread they are all newbies to upgrading their 6700. I agree that with you however that any questions related to Rob's ROMs should be directed to him.

There are many companies here in Silicon Valley that assign WM devices to their employees. And while it does violate their IT policy to muck with the OEM ROM, these people still do so, cause the base WM5 ROM blows as we all know. Most of these employees are indeed nerdy engineers, but they're way too busy with their compnay projects to get involved with kitchens.

I would honestly be pretty pissed if future C&S ROMs were no longer going to be developed. I use the C&S ROMs from this site, but I always help out by answering questions when I can to newbies. This way people like me who are C&S "only" can still contribute to this site (even though it might not be "kitchen" related)

Quote:
Originally Posted by gguruusa View Post
The majority of WM6 users are kitchen users. The kitchen has come a long, long way since WM5 days. Aside from people trying to put too much stuff in their ROM (which is handled much better than WM5 days, but there's still some room for improvement), it's hard to build a bad ROM. In fact, one of the goals of the new kitchen was to make distribution of ROMs obsolete - you can distribute an OEM pack and selections.txt file to accomplish the same thing, but with support for more devices and consuming less bandwith (not to mention fewer questionable licensing issues). Pre-made ROMs are going the way of the dinosaur.
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Old 01-05-2008, 07:04 PM
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Just because everyone you know uses a C&S rom, doesn't alter the facts. Your view is limited by your eyesight.

You'd be "pissed" if someone stopped holding your hand just the way you like it held? Dissapointed maybe, but pissed?

What you don't seem to understand is that building and loading a C&S ROM from the kitchen is about 2 clicks more difficult than loading the C&S rom you love so dearly - and way more device compatible. It's really just a matter of practicality.

Times change.
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Old 01-05-2008, 07:36 PM
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I'd say eyesight is pretty good here in the Valley. In fact I can't think of any other place on earth where more people use blackberrys/wm devices. And I still walk up to every random person I see holding a 6700 to ask what ROM that are using. Most of course still use the stock Sprint crap, so thus an introduction to ppcgeeks always follows. I can't even begin to count how many people are craving a WM6 upgrade, or have sucessfully done one (via C&S of course)

But I'm not going to get into it with you gguruusa, you have very set views and I can't change them. Sure I could learn a to use a kitchen, but again if you count the number of posts in Rob's thread (or dare I even say Kirvin's?), you'd see that the majority of the "little" people like us are just fine using pre-made roms and dont care to take that "extra step". Had Rob not made a Sprint ROM, I probably would have learned the kitchen, but turns out I got exactly what I was looking for. I still want to say to those people out there that use C&S ROMs, that you should really ask the cooker of your ROM for support issues, as they know the ROM the best. Both Kirvin and Rob helped me out whenever I needed, it and luv2chill as well, so thanks to you guys for that...

Sure I'd be rather disappointed if C&S roms stopped. Why not? I like having the latest and greatest, just like all the rest. And yes, my hand was held in the beginning, but I no longer really bug people for much help anymore as I've been able to figure most things out.

And yes I completly agree that it's a matter of practicality, and in my "narrow eyesight", as you say, C&S is practical for me...(no extra kitchen software welcome on my machine)


Quote:
Originally Posted by gguruusa View Post
Just because everyone you know uses a C&S rom, doesn't alter the facts. Your view is limited by your eyesight.

You'd be "pissed" if someone stopped holding your hand just the way you like it held? Dissapointed maybe, but pissed?

What you don't seem to understand is that building and loading a C&S ROM from the kitchen is about 2 clicks more difficult than loading the C&S rom you love so dearly - and way more device compatible. It's really just a matter of practicality.

Times change.
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  #15 (permalink)  
Old 01-05-2008, 08:22 PM
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I'm not trying to belittle you...it's just that you're looking at a very small picture and equating it to the whole.

Here's the deal:

If you want to count posts/reads, the kitchen wins by a landslide. Not only has the kitchen been out a far shorter time (Robs ROM has been out about twice as long as the kitchen), but the kitchen has more posts/reads - and that's not even including the fact that we start most of the threads over again when we do major releases or that just about every thread here relates to the kitchen.

But here's the real reason the kitchen is so popular: the kitchen targets every user of every carrier in every country. Customized Roms target specific carriers, which severely limits their distribution, and only a select group of users of those carriers at that.

Early kitchens were difficult to use, and that encouraged hard core people to produce ROMs to help out the timid. The current kitchen is much more friendly than before, and that has converted a lot of ROM users to kitchen users. This trend does not show any sign of diminishing presently. The friendliness of the current kitchen is why you only see 1 or 2 custom WM6 ROMs for the apache instead of the 10-15 we had for the WM5 kitchen.

It's also a little taxing on ROM makers to keep a ROM current. Unlike the kitchen, which has bunches of people supporting it, a ROM usually has only 1. You lose a little interest of the one and the ROM dies. Not to mention most everyone here has an itch to be as current as possible, and that creates a natural attraction towards the kitchen - it will always be more current than a ROM based on it.

Throw in that the kitchen keeps getting better. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to draw the inevitable conclusion.

BTW, I'm not saying that there won't be some demand for premade ROMs in the future. What I'm saying is that the mechanism of releasing a ROM will likely be via the kitchen in the future and not via a standalone download. Whether you realize it or not, it's far more practical for everyone involved.
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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 01-05-2008, 08:38 PM
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gguruusa cand rxb216,

I didnt start the post to envoke ill will to one another.
I am one of those little people that enjoy the convenience
of having a C&S. By far, I believe we out number the
ones that use the kitchen and there shouldnt be anything
wrong with that. Its like going from Win 98 to Win XP.
Big difference, but if your computer is fine with win98 is
fine with out the other features- should you have to switch?

We all have some time to comfortable with the kitchen and
OEMs that we are looking for. Hell, I enjoy the fact that I
can load a foundation ROM and build from it via cabs and
such.

gguruusa, I am not taking anything away from your opinion and views-
Its views like that which grow us even more. Imagine all the others out
there that are still using the stock ROMs. They may know about the
upgrade but their fear out weighs their choice to upgrade. Honestly,
a new bee would be over whelmed.

Just trying to show a little insight to my views and what I am trying to
capture from the ROM(s). Thanks for allowing me to express my views.

Thanks again for all the hard work you and the other talented contributors
have done.

Regards
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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 01-05-2008, 10:41 PM
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No offense taken.

I recognize the fear problem, that's why I keep working on the kitchen. What you should find moving forward is that the kitchen interface becomes more and more friendly, even for people that are totally new to the process. Your desire and my statement aren't that far apart...you'll still have the ability to generate a pre-made ROM for your phone with but a few clicks (no matter what your carrier is) and you'll also have the option to bake your personalization settings in the ROM (IMHO, that's worth using the kitchen all by itself...I HATED typing that stuff in everytime I loaded a ROM).

The main factors inhibiting my vision from being a reality today are installation issues, complexity of the openning kitchen screen, and the natural reluctance of people to adopt change. The first 2 issues are being resolved, and the last just takes time.


BTW, your analogy isn't quite right...it's not like win98 to winXP, it's more like floppy to CD-ROM. The kitchen doesn't make it better or even different, it just makes more options available if you want to take advantage of them - and keeps everything in a more distributable form. But, to answer your question more directly...yes, while you shouldn't have to change, sometimes it's easier if you do - even if it is scary..
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old 01-06-2008, 12:54 AM
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People, please this is not an issue. Most people that our here Apache, Upgrades are here for that reason. You are taking the time of one of our main resources from doing what he does best, The Kitchen. Please end this thread here.
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Old 01-06-2008, 03:06 AM
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aww, you're depriving me of a fun diversion!

But yeah, time to get back to work. Thanks for the friendly banter, strickly_ppc670. Let's check signals in 9mths or so and see if my head is up my ass or I should register as a psychic.

Anyone know where the light switch is?
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Old 01-06-2008, 01:18 PM
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First off I'd like to say... I love the kitchen, I really do! If it wasn't for the hard work of the many individuals that invested so much time into this, none of this would have ever been possible.

Honestly, I have recently started using the kitchen to make my "base ROM", then taking that cooked ROM and decoding it to change the little things that can't quite be tweaked from the kitchen. I like to add a little more of a personal touch to my ROMs and I release them to the public because I think that other people might like what I have done as well. A bunch of this stuff is really simple to do from the kitchen for general users, but another handful of it is not. For example, adding documents in the start menu, replacing WM sounds with Vista sounds, and whatever else it is that I've done before.

Up until a month or two ago I wasn't even familiar with how to use a kitchen, I never even tried. I was just used to disassembling the ROM image and doing everything manually... and that is still the way I do certain things in my ROMs. But you kow what? it's personal preference... it's all personal preference. For those of you that like to play around, I encourage you to use the kitchen, it can actually be quite fun.

Last edited by robmayer; 01-06-2008 at 01:21 PM.
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