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pknyo 09-25-2009 05:56 PM

Google issueing a C & D to Android Chef Please read and support Chefs everywhere
 
I think it is safe to say that all of us here are in favor of open mobile platforms in which people with the dedication and skills necessary may experiment and support there platform community. I`m sure that many people here would not even consider Windows Mobile if wasn`t for Microsoft and HTCs acceptance of the modding community.

You might think that Google would be just as open-minded when it came to their "open"-source Android. This however is coming under fire. The very popular Cyanogen has been hit with a Cease and Desist order from the the little green spaceman. Their problem with Cyanogen is with the distribution of close source "Google Experience" apps. In his defense Cyanogen says that the rom is intended for the G1 and MyTouch which are already Google branded phones. Cyanogen is said to be trying to open dialogue with Google. His site is down, but you can follow him on twitter @Cyanogen.

Even though I think that Google does have a valid argument here, it is discouraging to see a chef harassed by Google for trying to expand and improve their platform at his own expense. I think that what it boils down to is that manufacturers are paying Google for it`s branding that is associated with the "Google Experience". With Android`s proliferation of custom UIs such as HTC Sense and Moto Blur (without Google branding) they are trying to keep their own competing experience closed to those who are paying for it. Google is trying to protect their interests here, but they are doing so at the cost of their most loyal supporter. The people who supported their new platform, some of which went on to actively develop for it are going to second guess the so called openness of Google.

Please support Cyanogen, Chefs and people who believe in the right to hack and mod devices in which we have paid our hard earned money to own and use as we please. There is a petition to support Cyanogen. Let`s get those 10,00 signatures and then some.

Cyanogen on Twitter http://twitter.com/cyanogen

Petition http://www.petitionspot.com/petition.../#signpetition

Facebook Group http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gi...4407186&ref=nf

Sources:

Engadget http://www.engadget.com/2009/09/24/g...desist-letter/

Gizmodo http://gizmodo.com/5367420/google-th...ase+and+desist

Maximum PC http://www.maximumpc.com/article/new...oid_rom_modder

NewYorkLaw 09-25-2009 07:35 PM

Re: Google issueing a C & D to Android Chef Please read and support Chefs everywhere
 
Thanks for bringing this to my attention. I'm signing the petition. I don't have a google/android phone, but support the work of Cyanogen and other chefs, who hack and improve our devices.
Pete

vashwood 09-25-2009 07:40 PM

Re: Google issueing a C & D to Android Chef Please read and support Chefs everywhere
 
I'm actually surprised about this. I'm going to sign the petition as well.

breakmyfootoff 09-25-2009 09:58 PM

Re: Google issueing a C & D to Android Chef Please read and support Chefs everywhere
 
I like android, I just dont like that all the android devices so far are hvga. Either way though, the developers should be supported. Without the developers none of the platforms would be as advanced as they are. Petition signed!

jethro_static 09-25-2009 10:06 PM

Re: Google issueing a C & D to Android Chef Please read and support Chefs everywhere
 
We've been disccussing this in the other thread. Contrary to popular belief, Google's Android is not as Open Source as many thinks. It is still controlled by Google and will always be controlled. Google did not create Android so people can just Modify it and call it their own. Google did not create it so that they can have a lot of "thanks" button. They did Android to make profit. In order to get that profit, They have to control where the OS is going.
But I feel for the developers and I believe cyanogen should be supported. Especially from those 30,000 users of cyanogenMod.

pknyo 09-26-2009 12:29 AM

Re: Google issueing a C & D to Android Chef Please read and support Chefs everywhere
 
Thanks for the input. I was`nt aware that their was a discussion going on for this. I just read about this this morning when i got home from work (it`s my daily habit to check out the tech blogs blog 3-4 times every day). thanks for supporting this developer, I remember when the fake C & D rumor wear spread about an XDA chef using 6.5 on roms and I got a little bit worried. I am moving to the Sprint Hero on the 11th and I got a bit alarmed when I heard this news. Please spread the word and get as many people to sign this as possible, this guy needs all the support he can get.

SporkLover 09-26-2009 10:21 AM

Re: Google issueing a C & D to Android Chef Please read and support Chefs everywhere
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jethro_static (Post 1194213)
We've been disccussing this in the other thread. Contrary to popular belief, Google's Android is not as Open Source as many thinks. It is still controlled by Google and will always be controlled. Google did not create Android so people can just Modify it and call it their own. Google did not create it so that they can have a lot of "thanks" button. They did Android to make profit. In order to get that profit, They have to control where the OS is going.
But I feel for the developers and I believe cyanogen should be supported. Especially from those 30,000 users of cyanogenMod.


Jethro, you are hard headed man. Read what open source means. It means you can get to the code, it is posted for the public to see modify, redistribute, etc etc. Android is that.

Open Source does not mean you can do whatever you want with Close Sourced software (GMail, Market, etc). If Google wants to control the way they distribute their closed source software, then it is on Google, and not the OS.

jethro_static 09-26-2009 12:33 PM

Re: Google issueing a C & D to Android Chef Please read and support Chefs everywhere
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by SporkLover (Post 1194976)
Jethro, you are hard headed man. Read what open source means. It means you can get to the code, it is posted for the public to see modify, redistribute, etc etc. Android is that.

Open Source does not mean you can do whatever you want with Close Sourced software (GMail, Market, etc). If Google wants to control the way they distribute their closed source software, then it is on Google, and not the OS.

This dude is tryin to tell everyone that he knows about Android but if U see his post, He will just tell U Android is open source. Tell everyone how open Android means. and when does google come step in.

Did tovalds stepped in and say U violated something in linux? Android is licensed! meaning somebody owns it! I will keep on bashing U misleading people.

SporkLover 09-26-2009 08:31 PM

Re: Google issueing a C & D to Android Chef Please read and support Chefs everywhere
 
Open Sourced doesnt mean someone doesn't own it. It means that the code for the software is available, you can modify it, and redistribute it. Different types of licenses dictate how you can redistribute it, and whether or not you need to release your own coding updates.

This post sums it up quite well. http://androidandme.com/2009/09/news...d-controversy/

The crux of the issue was not what Cyanogen was doing with Android, but the CLOSED SOURCE apps that belong to Google.

Sorry if you can't understand that.

Quote:

We make some of these apps available to users of any Android-powered device via Android Market, and others are pre-installed on some phones through business deals.
In Google's own words. Google is protecting their business deals. I would imaging this means that they are charging Manufacturers, or Carriers for the Google Experience.

jethro_static 09-27-2009 04:51 AM

Re: Google issueing a C & D to Android Chef Please read and support Chefs everywhere
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by SporkLover (Post 1195898)
Open Sourced doesnt mean someone doesn't own it. It means that the code for the software is available, you can modify it, and redistribute it. Different types of licenses dictate how you can redistribute it, and whether or not you need to release your own coding updates.

This post sums it up quite well. http://androidandme.com/2009/09/news...d-controversy/

The crux of the issue was not what Cyanogen was doing with Android, but the CLOSED SOURCE apps that belong to Google.

Sorry if you can't understand that.



In Google's own words. Google is protecting their business deals. I would imaging this means that they are charging Manufacturers, or Carriers for the Google Experience.

that is the same stuffs we do on WM. But no cheff receive C and D letter from Microsoft.WM phones chefs ports anything posible. From tf3d to midomi. Google maps to youtube. But google never send a C and D letter to WM chefs even for distributing their closed sourced google maps. Wether same manufacturer, different manufacturer. but Google is so defensive on their Android even the development is for android itself. Is that Freedom of open source mean to U?

SporkLover 09-27-2009 01:48 PM

Re: Google issueing a C & D to Android Chef Please read and support Chefs everywhere
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jethro_static (Post 1196680)
that is the same stuffs we do on WM. But no cheff receive C and D letter from Microsoft.WM phones chefs ports anything posible. From tf3d to midomi. Google maps to youtube. But google never send a C and D letter to WM chefs even for distributing their closed sourced google maps. Wether same manufacturer, different manufacturer. but Google is so defensive on their Android even the development is for android itself. Is that Freedom of open source mean to U?

It isn't the same thing. Those Android apps have specified distribution licenses. Their counteparts on WM dont have that.

You can't seem to delineate Google's Android Efforts, from their Android App development efforts.

What they choose to do with their close sourced apps, how they distribute them, has no bearing on how open Android is.

Think of those Apps as like the Paid NERO app for Linux. You pay for those apps as a built in cost of the phone. You Cannot redistribute them. Just like you can't Copy a paid NERO program from your linux computer and make it available for others. That is what Cyanogen was doing, even if he had the best of intentions.

jethro_static 09-29-2009 02:05 AM

Re: Google issueing a C & D to Android Chef Please read and support Chefs everywhere
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by SporkLover (Post 1197104)
It isn't the same thing. Those Android apps have specified distribution licenses. Their counteparts on WM dont have that.

You can't seem to delineate Google's Android Efforts, from their Android App development efforts.

What they choose to do with their close sourced apps, how they distribute them, has no bearing on how open Android is.

Think of those Apps as like the Paid NERO app for Linux. You pay for those apps as a built in cost of the phone. You Cannot redistribute them. Just like you can't Copy a paid NERO program from your linux computer and make it available for others. That is what Cyanogen was doing, even if he had the best of intentions.

Dude, Youtube app and Google Maps is a paid App for Android? That is what the Initial google problem with cyanogen. This aint no warez problem. Google never claimed that Cyanogen is distributing Paid Apps. They claim about closed apps.

SporkLover 09-29-2009 02:49 AM

Re: Google issueing a C & D to Android Chef Please read and support Chefs everywhere
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jethro_static (Post 1201133)
Dude, Youtube app and Google Maps is a paid App for Android? That is what the Initial google problem with cyanogen. This aint no warez problem. Google never claimed that Cyanogen is distributing Paid Apps. They claim about closed apps.


Look at what Google says about the distribution of those apps. They are provided on the Cell Phone via a Business agreements (IE the Manufacturers Pay Google for the Google experience on their Android Phones). Cyanogen was not part of those business agreements. He had no right to distribute them. Period.

From the other thread..... The sky is the limit with Android..... just don't try to distribute software you have no license to distribute or you will get your hand smacked. That is Cyanogen's problem. It's not an Android problem. Google didn't have any issue with what he did with Android. In fact Cyanogen is distributing his ROMs again MINUS the software. You should really try to understand that.

Google Mail + Youtube + Market != Android . They are NOT ANDROID, they are Apps on Android.

Before you continue to spout your flawed theory of what Android and Open Source is..... go and read what Cyanogen himself says about the platform.

Quote:

The last few days have been difficult. What has become clear now is that the Android Open Source Project is a framework. It’s licensed in such a way so that anyone can take it, modify it to their needs, and redistribute it as they please. Android belongs to everyone. This also means that big companies likes Google, HTC, Motorola, and whomever else can add their own pieces to it and share these pieces under whatever license they choose.
I’ve made lots of changes myself to the AOSP code, and added in code from lots of others. Building a better Droid, right?
The issue that’s raised is the redistribution of Google’s proprietary applications like Maps, GTalk, Market, and YouTube. These are not part of the open source project and are only part of “Google Experience” devices. They are Google’s intellectual property and I intend to respect that. I will no longer be distributing these applications as part of CyanogenMod. But it’s OK. None of the go-fast stuff that I do involves any of this stuff anyway. We need these applications though, because we all rely so heavily on their functionality. I’d love for Google to hand over the keys to the kingdom and let us all have it for free, but that’s not going to happen. And who can blame them?

SporkLover 09-29-2009 02:56 AM

Re: Google issueing a C & D to Android Chef Please read and support Chefs everywhere
 
Before you say something else that is wrong. The licensing structure is Apache. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apache_License

Google hold's the copyright, but it makes the source code open. It allows developers to change it, and redistribute it. It allows them to make the pieces they develop themselves (SenseUI, Motoblur) and label them as close sourced.... or they can make open source if they want.

It's a flexible Open source licensing structure that allows someone to build revenue from their own work....

jethro_static 09-29-2009 04:59 AM

Re: Google issueing a C & D to Android Chef Please read and support Chefs everywhere
 
OK readers. This dude will sway ur decisions that is it ok. Don't be fooled. Sproklan is no developer. Sporklan is no more intelligent as U and me. Sporklan will copy and paste what he found on the internet just to prove me wrong. He will believe what he read on wiki, no questions ask.Sporklan is the kind of person that U will find on the streets that, U will tell him to buy something. and he will buy it. like the way he bought Android. He will Stand behind android no matter what.

This is the thing thou, Android is not as free as WM. And WM is as free as what we want it to be. Sporklan however says that Android is more free, and it will be the most powerful OS in the mobile world. But he is on the WM community. Why are U here and owning a WM device anyways? he will tell U that he did not say Android is more powerful but I will link U to our conversartion once he does. just look out for d edits time. it will be there.

Now he made sense UI as an example. Dude. Sense UI from goolges phone is being ported with no fear at all!

jethro_static 09-29-2009 05:07 AM

Re: Google issueing a C & D to Android Chef Please read and support Chefs everywhere
 
The problem with my rebatal and sporklan is he thinks that copying and pasting what wiki and google said will end the debate. He does not think that, Dude, Just use ur common sense. U will understand.

jethro_static 09-29-2009 05:17 AM

Re: Google issueing a C & D to Android Chef Please read and support Chefs everywhere
 
I will tell U sporklan that this thread is about supporting cyanogen.
I know cyanogen gave up and will stop distributing what he used to do under Googles power.
HAHAHA!
This thread is supposed to be, signing a petition for google to leave cyanogen alone. that is in favor of cyanogen the development.

I never thought that this thread is about, to convince cyanogen to do what Google wants him to do.

If this thead is on Googles favor, FU! I will never sign that petition!

Sporklan, tell this people How Open Google Android is.. LMAO!

bikeandestroyx 09-29-2009 05:26 AM

Re: Google issueing a C & D to Android Chef Please read and support Chefs everywhere
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jethro_static (Post 1201282)
This is the thing thou, Android is not as free as WM. And WM is as free as what we want it to be. Sporklan however says that Android is more free, and it will be the most powerful OS in the mobile world. But he is on the WM community. Why are U here and owning a WM device anyways? he will tell U that he did not say Android is more powerful but I will link U to our conversartion once he does. just look out for d edits time. it will be there.

Now he made sense UI as an example. Dude. Sense UI from goolges phone is being ported with no fear at all!

Thats definately not true, windows mobile doesn't distribute the source code or label it as open source. The reason that it may "seem" more open is cause microsoft doesnt give a damn weither we distribute its work, along with HTC. Google seems to be more caring about that stuff. We have no right to make roms, or distribute unreleased software, but since they don't say anything we do it anyways.

Um sense UI is being ported cause HTC never gives C&D's. Its not open source...

Also how does apps that arent open source make a whole OS all of a sudden not so open?
The apps were never meant to be distributed, they are closed, If you read he says hes continuing development but not including those apps in and that is fine with google.

jethro_static 09-29-2009 05:33 AM

Re: Google issueing a C & D to Android Chef Please read and support Chefs everywhere
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by bikeandestroyx (Post 1201298)
Thats definately not true, windows mobile doesn't distribute the source code or label it as open source. The reason that it may "seem" more open is cause microsoft doesnt give a damn weither we distribute its work, along with HTC. Google seems to be more caring about that stuff. We have no right to make roms, or distribute unreleased software, but since they don't say anything we do it anyways.

Um sense UI is being ported cause HTC never gives C&D's. Its not open source...

Also how does apps that arent open source make a whole OS all of a sudden not so open?
The apps were never meant to be distributed, they are closed, If you read he says hes continuing development but not including those apps in and that is fine with google.

U do not Understand a thing. So go ahead and troll on other thread thread coz this topic is much too complex for U.

nobody says M$ will distribute M$ code. Nobody knows M$ codes!!!! It is a closed platform!!! even if somebody knows the code, They cannot release the code!!! It is protected!!!

bikeandestroyx 09-29-2009 06:31 AM

Re: Google issueing a C & D to Android Chef Please read and support Chefs everywhere
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jethro_static (Post 1201301)
U do not Understand a thing. So go ahead and troll on other thread thread coz this topic is much too complex for U.

nobody says M$ will distribute M$ code. Nobody knows M$ codes!!!! It is a closed platform!!! even if somebody knows the code, They cannot release the code!!! It is protected!!!

Yes i knoww that, thats why i wrote it, So saying wm is morre open than android is not true get your sht straight man dont try telling me i dont know anything. Your best arguement so far has been dont copy and paste wtf man explain to me how android isnt open source

breakmyfootoff 09-29-2009 07:46 AM

Re: Google issueing a C & D to Android Chef Please read and support Chefs everywhere
 
Jethro doesn't respond to logic guys. You might as well be arguing with Beavis and Butthead. He always resorts to things like, "I pwned U, U are FAIL HAHAHA LOLOLOL!!!!!" when he's wrong.

SporkLover 09-29-2009 08:45 AM

Re: Google issueing a C & D to Android Chef Please read and support Chefs everywhere
 
Jethro, first you say I don't provide evidence to my posts. Once I do you say all I do is copy and paste. Did you run out illogical things to rebut (or do I mean rebatal?) with?

It has become quite obvious you do not understand what an Open Source OS is. It is not the wild west that means you can use whatever close sourced software you want.

It is also quite obvious you have the reading comprehension of a 10 year old, and could not post a coherent, cogent, well thought out argument if someone paid you a million dollars to do so. Trying to post something logical and have a constructive discussion with you is like Entering a battle of wits with an unarmed man; the Jethro Screen Name is definitely appropriate


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